Initial enmity generation and player bad habits.

[Mardel]

The problem comes down to this:

Warrior not using unchained tomahawk. Followed by SOME weave of berserk at the end of their threat combo. (obviously in defiance)

Paladin not using Fight or Flight >> shield lob >> circle of scorn >> threat combo. (With shield oath)


What I tend to see is... tank run in tomahawk/shield lob and think that's good enough. (I was guilty of this once before)
The other bad habit is...when they lose threat they keep throwing shield lob thinking it will magically get their hate back.

If you lose threat on paladin you could at least use cover on the threat target....

[Hyouretsuzan]

The problem comes down to this:


Paladin not using Fight or Flight >> shield lob >> circle of scorn >> threat combo. (With shield oath)

I dunno about using Fight or Flight before shield lob. It's not needed. Better to activate it after shield lob. If you choose to do fight or flight before lob you won't get the last buffed rage of halone and circle of scorn. I mean it's whatever I guess? If you care for damage. Buutttttttt buffed rage of halone is a good enmity boost.

[Mardel]

I dunno about using Fight or Flight before shield lob. It's not needed. Better to activate it after shield lob. If you choose to do fight or flight before lob you won't get the last buffed rage of halone and circle of scorn. I mean it's whatever I guess? If you care for damage. Buutttttttt buffed rage of halone is a good enmity boost.

If I do the pull properly I have enough timer on flight or flight to re-apply circle of scorn under the buff. So thats 2 circle of scorn under Fight or flight. (I think that's 2 rage of halone combos in between.)

So I don't see the issue, but you can't slack you need to be on point to get it done correctly.

[Hyouretsuzan]

If I do the pull properly I have enough timer on flight or flight to re-apply circle of scorn under the buff. So thats 2 circle of scorn under Fight or flight. (I think that's 2 rage of halone combos in between.)

So I don't see the issue, but you can't slack you need to be on point to get it done correctly.

Hmm...after doing the combo that you said a few times, I can't seem to hit the last rage of halone. I do get that extra scorn but due to the animation of RoH, I miss it by a few milli. It could be you just have slightly more skill speed. I just play it safe and do the method I mentioned since I don't recall ever having an issue of losing threat right at the beginning.

The only reason I find a small issue is that some tank (a lot in my experience) tend to activate fight or flight before they start running towards the boss. That causes them to waste a few sec (Maybe 2 sec)

[Mardel]

Hmm...after doing the combo that you said a few times, I can't seem to hit the last rage of halone. I do get that extra scorn but due to the animation of RoH, I miss it by a few milli. It could be you just have slightly more skill speed. I just play it safe and do the method I mentioned since I don't recall ever having an issue of losing threat right at the beginning.

The only reason I find a small issue is that some tank (a lot in my experience) tend to activate fight or flight before they start running towards the boss. That causes them to waste a few sec (Maybe 2 sec)

I probably did have more skill speed, on the build I was using. I time my fight or flight to be right as i'm running and spamming my shield lob.

[Ashkendor]

The problem comes down to this:

Warrior not using unchained tomahawk. Followed by SOME weave of berserk at the end of their threat combo. (obviously in defiance)

Paladin not using Fight or Flight >> shield lob >> circle of scorn >> threat combo. (With shield oath)

What I tend to see is... tank run in tomahawk/shield lob and think that's good enough. (I was guilty of this once before)
The other bad habit is...when they lose threat they keep throwing shield lob thinking it will magically get their hate back.

If you lose threat on paladin you could at least use cover on the threat target....

Funny, the problem I see is trigger-happy DPS that can't be bothered to use Quelling Strikes.

I'd rather save Cover for an actual clutch moment rather than one person that's too lazy to use a buff.

Not to mention the biggest culprits are BLM/BRD, which are almost always out of range.

[Mardel]

Funny, the problem I see is trigger-happy DPS that can't be bothered to use Quelling Strikes.

Sadly, I've used quelling strikes, left off BFB/Barrage while waiting for my next dot rotation and still pull threat after the tank has shield lobbed. (In PF/DF) I mean my bard isn't doing that much damage at the start.
Typically the tank isn't following up their initial hit properly. Now if I blow all my CD even with quelling I can't expect every tank to hold threat during that- which is why I try and delay that portion in pf/df situations.

[NyneAlexander]

Now if I blow all my CD even with quelling I can't expect every tank to hold threat during that- which is why I try and delay that portion in pf/df situations.

Provided the tank is of comparable iLVL, then yes you absolutely should expect a tank to hold hate through you using quelling and blowing your cooldowns.

[Mardel]

Provided the tank is of comparable iLVL, then yes you absolutely should expect a tank to hold hate through you using quelling and blowing your cooldowns.

I don't have high expectations of pf/df people most of the time. That is why I said this.