Impatient/rude players

[TheodoreMcIntyre]

How is that a abusing vote kick system? There is an option deserving a vote kick is "Harassment". By not saying you are new DESPITE being asked nicely at the start of the fight, failing to follow instruction, doing w/e they want and think they are contributing, and because of that attitude, he/she is wasting other people times and that is a form of harassment. It is not like "Oh hey you are new. You fail. Kick". Vote Kick is there, so we have the option to kick those kind of people without sacrificing our time or face the penalty for leaving mid-way.

That's...really not harassment.
By like any definition of the word.

Woah. If I saw a level 39 i19 CONJURER in Brayflox, I'd kick you too. That just wasting everyones time.

I would kick you for being pretentious and abusing the votekick system.

[LionKing]

Pretty sure most of people here don't want to have their fun experiences to be ruined by:

A/ The new who tried to hide his new-ish by himself but fails the battle miserably
B/ The wannabe hero who loves to work alone, ignore team cooperation and just do whatever he feel like.
C/ The high and mighty who thinks "I am always right, you are always wrong" even though he is the wrong-doer.
D/ The under-gear, fail to play his job miserably.
E/ The repeated offender.

Of course there is always exception. I don't know whether you are realy that Saint or you just pretend to be one. In either case, Kudos to you then.

And here is the definition:

Harassment (/həˈræsmənt/ or /ˈhærəsmənt/) covers a wide range of behaviours of an offensive nature. It is commonly understood as behaviour intended to disturb or upset, and it is characteristically repetitive

- Being under-geared and fail to play your role whilst trying to cover for his new-ish by not letting people know and remain silent even with being asked: The behaviour intended to disturb the pace of the run and other people's experience and wasting other people time.

-Repeat the same mistakes over and over despite being told that was wrong: The characteristically repetitive.

-The all and mighty: The very offensive and aggressive nature.

I will leave the conclusion to you.

Do you know what people do when they want to troll a run?

1/Wear under-level gears.
2/Purposely repeat the mistakes over and over with the intention of messing up the run.
3/Fail to play his class properly.
4/Being all high and mighty. "I am right, you are wrong"

Yes, they behave the same as a newbie would behave minus the part being new. So the same goes for any newbie that did not say he was new whist being asked (how are we supposed to know if you don't say. We don't have the ability to read mind) will be flagged as intentionally trolling.

While working in a team, if you:

A/Fail to complete your given tasks because of etc...
B/Lagging behind the group and hold the group down.
C/ "I am right, you are wrong" business again.

Do you know what will the team leader do? Yes, they will kick you and exclude you out of the team because you are a hindrance. Will you report him for being abusive of his right as team leader? You could but a reasonable people will know who is at the wrong here.

This is not the matter it is just a bloody game. It is the basic principle for any team-work out there. So better learn it while in game rather than have a hard lesson in real life.

[jlenoconel]

Well, like I said, I asked my team why we were losing, because I didn't know. I didn't know I was that underpowered. I asked them how to win the battle, and that's when they responded rudely. I think there's a difference between helping someone and being completely rude.

Its hard to know the ins and outs of this game, and if a player is lacking a little bit, it doesn't mean other players should be rude to that person. I've never actually been rude to one person on this game, and I've never kicked anyone. Not saying its not necessary to kick someone if they're being a douche, but most times I don't see that happening.

I made the mistake of going into a dungeon underpowered, and am working on making my conjurer better, which is the normal thing to do. It was more the players attitude I was working with that upset me. Not telling me how to fight a battle and being rude isn't cool in my book, even if I WAS underpowered. I don't usually play the I'm right, you're wrong thing in this game and I try to be as agreeable and as helpful as I can to other players.

This is my first MMORPG anyway, and I've been playing since last December. I hope to improve as time goes on, and hopefully players will treat each other with respect, as I always do with others. After all, we are all paying quite a lot to play this game on a monthly basis. I think that should account for something.

[tocsin]

Well, like I said, I asked my team why we were losing, because I didn't know. I didn't know I was that underpowered. I asked them how to win the battle, and that's when they responded rudely. I think there's a difference between helping someone and being completely rude.

Its hard to know the ins and outs of this game, and if a player is lacking a little bit, it doesn't mean other players should be rude to that person. I've never actually been rude to one person on this game, and I've never kicked anyone. Not saying its not necessary to kick someone if they're being a douche, but most times I don't see that happening.

I made the mistake of going into a dungeon underpowered, and am working on making my conjurer better, which is the normal thing to do. It was more the players attitude I was working with that upset me. Not telling me how to fight a battle and being rude isn't cool in my book, even if I WAS underpowered. I don't usually play the I'm right, you're wrong thing in this game and I try to be as agreeable and as helpful as I can to other players.

This is my first MMORPG anyway, and I've been playing since last December. I hope to improve as time goes on, and hopefully players will treat each other with respect, as I always do with others. After all, we are all paying quite a lot to play this game on a monthly basis. I think that should account for something.

Honestly, at this point nothing that any of the other players could have told you would have made a lick of difference. you went into the dungeon so totally outmatched that you had no chance of success. a lot of players will explain fights and such, but there is a basic baseline of where you have to be to even hope to compete.

This makes me consider making a character on brynhildr, just to help you out a bit. Not saying Magic Academy H.S. is a bad fc or anything, but you might want to consider joining one of the larger fc's, one of which is willing to teach newer members. it makes a load of difference to have a consistent in game guide.

[Lilyanna]

Honestly, at this point nothing that any of the other players could have told you would have made a lick of difference. you went into the dungeon so totally outmatched that you had no chance of success.

^I main WHM and have a WHM Secondary Character for helping my FC Statics with runs when they are missing healers. I can Speed Run every Dungeon on my main with no problems (i109), but my alt (i92) has a very hard time with the larger pulls, and it is not because I don't know what is going on, but because -sometimes- gear may make the difference in healing output.

[DarkmoonVael]

@LionKing. You make some salient points here, but the difficulty lies in the differentitation of the deliberate troll and the new, inexpereinced and possibly insecure player. I would alway tend towards the cautious side when deciding to initiate a vote kick.
I have to say that i do not agree with your analysis that most undergeared players are there to deliberatly disturb the pace of the run, there can be a plethora of reasons why a players gear isnt as good as the percieved "normal", and i would hope sincerely that no-one is kicked from DF for being undergeared. There are usually workarounds for one member being undergeared.
I do agree with you when you say that overly agressive and offensive people should be dealt with through the initiation of a vote kick against them, then let the group decide.
I think that this topic is a fairly difficult one to discuss using generalities, as most of the time whether something is harassment or not can only really be decided upon a case-by-case basis. General principles are there (deliberate, malicious intent), however these can be misinterpreted as well. There is a fine line between dealing with situations like these correctly and incorrectly, and i believe we sometimes only find out how a situation should have been dealt with properly is when one of the parties involved gets a visit from a GM!

[jlenoconel]

Think some of the people replying to me are not even listening to what I am saying and are missing the point completely. My shortcomings in the game don't mean people are entitled to me rude in this game. The comment that was made to me was rude. If they had said something like "I think you armor is underpowered," which has been said to me before, I would have taken it on board.

Anyway, I'm not repeating myself over and over again. I will just improve the character I am using over time, and try to challenge some of the harder dungeons later.

[PetiteMalFleur]

Hello Jleno! Welcome to ffxiv and I'm glad to see new players who enjoy the game and take it seriously. I'm sorry you had some bad experiences. You have to understand duty finder can be frustrating when the party composition appears hopeless.

Some things you can do to improve your contribution to your team...

1. Level arcanist to 15 and do your job quest to unlock white mage.
2. Replace your left side with level 32+ gear. Replace your right side with level 28+ jewelry.
3. You can equip jewelry of any class but your class specific gear will have its main stat listed first. On your healer this will be mind. All of your jewelry must have mind or it is considered worthless to your class. If you are on your tank your jewelry needs to have vitality.
4. Try your best to keep your weapon upgraded to the highest level you can obtain.
5. If you equip crafted gear try your best to find HQ or pink gear of the same level.

These are all very simple things expected before you enter a dungeon. Doing these things will help make higher level dungeons much less stressful for both you and your party. Good luck and let us know how it goes!

[jlenoconel]

See, that's more like it.

Its not that I want to be babied through this game, and I've definitely made efforts to become a good player in A Realm Reborn. I just want people to treat each other with respect that's all. Like I said, I usually get player commendations for my work in this game, and unfortunately made the mistake of being underpowered (my fault). Perhaps part of it wasn't realizing how powerful a healer needed to be in battle, but I am making efforts to have the best healer I can.

Anyway, I think A Realm Reborn has a quite a big learning curve. You have to not only level up, but level up your armor to be able to play sufficiently in battle. Then you have to learn what each spell/attack does. Anyway, I will continue to improve my character, and upon realizing any mistakes will amend them as I go along.

[LionKing]

@DarkmoonVael: Thanks for giving my post some serious thought. The message I want to relay is lying on the importance of communication. I pressed and repeated "Please let us know if you are new" over and over and over in each and every single one of my post.
We are all human, we make false call all the time. I will never ever kick anyone or vote kick anyone just because of:

A/They are under-geared.
B/They made mistakes but improving as the fight go on.
C/They are new, first timer as long as they let us know beforehand.

It is OK to be under-geared, it is OK to made mistake as long as you learn from it, it is OK to be new, first timer as long as we know . However, it is NOT OK for having all this and you don't let us know you are new. Please don't blame us for treat you EQUALLY as we treat everyone else, just because we did not know you are new. If you want to be treated differently, SPEAK UP, SPEAK UP, and SPEAK UP, how hard it can be just to say " I am new".

Most people won't laugh at you for speaking up you are new, most people will forgive your mistakes because they know you are new, most people will have patience with you because they know you are new. It is really unfair for you to expect people to treat you differently without you to SPEAK UP, and it is really unfair for you to judge people for being harsh on you because they did not know you are new.

I am not saying those who are under-geared are there to deliberately trolling the run. It is more like :

1/You are under-geared.
2/You are not new (whether you did not say it or you are not)
3/Making the same mistakes over and over.

1+2+3, when these things happen all together, I will conclude that they are here to troll unless, they speak up that they are new.

Moral of the post: If you are new, please SPEAK UP. Do not be afraid to say so. If you don't say anything, people will treat you the same as everyone else, and don't judge them for being harsh on you. It is just the same as they treat everyone else. We will go easy on you if you are new. However, we will have less tolerance for those who are not new and deliberately trolling.

@OP: This is not just for your case but also for anyone who went through the same experience, and also for those who still yet experience it. Very very Very important to let everyone in the party to know that you are new when you don't know what to do.