Used to be best way to do leves was to fail them

[TonyMontana]

You sure got me there!

.... unless you count:

Vanguard: APW (great dungeon)
EQ2 just about every other raid
FFXI (lol really?)
EQ1: Plane of Fear where there was really no other way to do it, Plane of Hate (before and after revamps), Chardok, in GoD expansion, and loads of other training through various zones to shorten raid times
WoW: trash there, which might be the only MMO you are familiar (since you asked such a silly question), dies so quick and is so mind numbingly simple to zombie mode I know maybe some like you don't bother but I sure did it quite a bit.
LotRO: Never bothered raiding
Aion: lol again

The only way you can prevent players from doing this is:

1. Mobs never leash but even then if you look at the examples above (XI and EQ1) that didn't stop people.
2. You leave no safe place whatsoever to regroup.
3. You have no time limit, the dungeon itself is pitifully short, the mobs are easy as pie, and generally no one cares so they just kill all the stuff they don't particularly want drops from anyways.

That was exhausting to think of 3 whole examples!

I liked that part. I asked a question about people avoiding 80% of mobs and you assume the only MMO ive ever played is wow. classic vidoe game forum "dig" I loved it.

[Murugan]

I liked that part. I asked a question about people avoiding 80% of mobs and you assume the only MMO ive ever played is wow. classic vidoe game forum "dig" I loved it.

And classic deflection so you don't have to admit how blatantly and massively wrong you just were.

[TonyMontana]

And classic deflection so you don't have to admit how blatantly and massively wrong you just were.

Heres what I will tell you ive played 5 MMOs not a ton I know but 5 none the less.

In 2003-04 I played FFXI at no point do I remember NEW raid content dropping that the best strat was to avoid almost every mob in the zone and only fight the bosses. I only made it to R61 so forgive me if I am wrong there.

2004-2008 played wow. When the content was new I never ran past 80% of trash mobs in MC,BWL,AQ20/40,Naxx, Didnt do it in any of the R70 raids either. The closest thing I can think of would be the suppression room in BWl but that was just one room and you actually did kill the mobs at some point.

2008 played AoC and warhammer, none of the instanced PvE content was avoid 80% of the mobs and run to the bosses.

2009 went back to wow. I know of the heroic you are refering to with the zombies the ONE heroic you are refering to and even in that example the content was not avoided in the FIRST 48 hours of release. Hell even at the time that was release it wasnt "end game" content. Naxx 40 was there as the end game content.

So sorry if in the 5 MMOs ive played this is the first new release end game content that is 80% bypassable and because of the time limit its actually encouraged. Go ahead and make some more personal attacks tho, thats fun stuff.

[TonyMontana]

Also if content is gonna take forever to come out, even being delayed because of the dungeons and then we just skip 80% of the mobs why doesnt SE take half the time and just create 2 rooms with 2 bosses insteead of a huge zone for us to avoid all the mobs in.

[Murugan]

Heres what I will tell you ive played 5 MMOs not a ton I know but 5 none the less.

In 2003-04 I played FFXI at no point do I remember NEW raid content dropping that the best strat was to avoid almost every mob in the zone and only fight the bosses. I only made it to R61 so forgive me if I am wrong there.

2004-2008 played wow. When the content was new I never ran past 80% of trash mobs in MC,BWL,AQ20/40,Naxx, Didnt do it in any of the R70 raids either. The closest thing I can think of would be the suppression room in BWl but that was just one room and you actually did kill the mobs at some point.

2008 played AoC and warhammer, none of the instanced PvE content was avoid 80% of the mobs and run to the bosses.

2009 went back to wow. I know of the heroic you are refering to with the zombies the ONE heroic you are refering to and even in that example the content was not avoided in the FIRST 48 hours of release. Hell even at the time that was release it wasnt "end game" content. Naxx 40 was there as the end game content.

So sorry if in the 5 MMOs ive played this is the first new release end game content that is 80% bypassable and because of the time limit its actually encouraged. Go ahead and make some more personal attacks tho, thats fun stuff.

Well saying you are wrong about something is not really a personal attack (and get ready because I'm going to do that again), nor is assuming you played WoW. This is such a common thing though in all endgame activities in MMO's that I was very surprised you seem unaware of it, It also seems like your endgame experience is pretty much WoW. It isn't that people don't do it in WoW, but it is that the community in WoW is filled with so many non-traditional MMO players that it's possible not all tactics that players typically use are as widespread there. When I played WoW I trained because I didn't want to waste my time with certain trash.

I also played WAR and AoC and trained dungeons there as well. Why didn't you? You say it is encouraged here, well it is encouraged everywhere because no matter what you are talking about some mobs simply don't hold any interest to players and if they can they will avoid them. I don't look at it as wasted mobs though, just obstacles.

It isn't as if you can run through with your eyes closed, and if someone dies it can be a problem so you are taking some risk. If you would like you can kill all those mobs I know our linkshell did on its first run, but you better be super efficient and ready for only a few attempts at the bosses. Which may have been intended, but the bosses are pretty tough so most groups are going to try to get as much learning time in on them as possible.

Point is though there are mechanics which can prevent this, they are not exactly preferable. Very likely not every instance in a game will be trained, but in every MMORPG there will be training. That's just being realistic.

[TonyMontana]

Well saying you are wrong about something is not really a personal attack (and get ready because I'm going to do that again), nor is assuming you played WoW. This is such a common things though in all endgame activities in MMO's that I was very surprised you seem unaware of it, It also seems like your endgame experience is pretty much WoW. It isn't that people don't do it in WoW, but it is that the community in WoW is filled with so many non-traditional MMO players that not all tactics that player use are as widespread there. When I played WoW I trained because I didn't want to waste my time with certain trash.

I also played WAR and AoC and trained dungeons there as well. Why didn't you? You say it is encouraged here, well it is encouraged everywhere because no matter what you are talking about some mobs simply don't hold any interest to players and if they can they will avoid them. I don't look at it as wasted mobs though, just obstacles.

It isn't as if you can run through with your eyes closed, and if someone dies it can be a problem so you are taking some risk. If you would like you can kill all those mobs I know our linkshell did on its first run, but you better be super efficient and ready for only a few attempts at the bosses. Which may have been intended, but the bosses are pretty tough so most groups are going to try to get as much learning time in on them as possible.

Point is though there are mechanics which can prevent this, they are not exactly preferable. Very likely not every instance in a game will be trained, but in every MMORPG there will be training. That's just being realistic.

I guess I would rather SE spend their time making content for me to fight and enjoy than spending time making content I run past avoiding. Its just my personal opinion. Expecially seeing as it takes them a long tme to put the content out.

[giftforce]

I guess I would rather SE spend their time making content for me to fight and enjoy than spending time making content I run past avoiding. Its just my personal opinion. Expecially seeing as it takes them a long tme to put the content out.

Evasion is as much a tactic as fighting.

It's just a different avenue of gameplay.

Besides, the dungeon would be way too long if you had to fight all the mobs + 2 bosses. It's a matter of pacing.

Only problem I have is with the obvious exploit that is running the dungeon up to the second chest and then repeating.

[TonyMontana]

Evasion is as much a tactic as fighting.

It's just a different avenue of gameplay.

Besides, the dungeon would be way too long if you had to fight all the mobs + 2 bosses. It's a matter of pacing.

Only problem I have is with the obvious exploit that is running the dungeon up to the second chest and then repeating.

Maybe so. Maybe I enjoy more dynamic content or something. I guess there is no law stating I have to like this content. And there sure isnt a law stating SE has to cater to my needs!

[Murugan]

I guess I would rather SE spend their time making content for me to fight and enjoy than spending time making content I run past avoiding. Its just my personal opinion.

Doesn't matter how they make it, people will find a way to do it. The only way to avoid is to put extremely obtrusive obstacles in place to prevent it, or remove the incentive to do it and neither of those things are going to be things that I'd wager even you would want to see in every raid.

I suggest you get over it, and enjoy how fun the boss fights are or get a farming group not necessarily interested in the final boss at the moment. Once the strategy has been nailed down across the community enough for people to kill the bosses in one attempt each it may be that people don't train as much. It may be that still do out of convenience, but also keep in mind this is the introduction instance.

Once jobs come out and the game becomes much harder to "exploit" hopefully due to a heavy reliance on more complex party mechanics (and god save us from the whiners when that day happens) it may be a non-issue, I really doubt it though. People are always gonna train until raids finally degrade into one 30 second encounter +1000 loot lottery jackpots. And we all retreat to the countryside to try and remember what it felt like to be "human".

[TonyMontana]

Doesn't matter how they make it, people will find a way to do it. The only way to avoid is to put extremely obtrusive obstacles in place to prevent it, or remove the incentive to do it and neither of those things are going to be things that I'd wager even you would want to see in every raid.

I suggest you get over it, and enjoy how fun the boss fights are or get a farming group not necessarily interested in the final boss at the moment. Once the strategy has been nailed down across the community enough for people to kill the bosses in one attempt each it may be that people don't train as much. It may be that still do out of convenience, but also keep in mind this is the introduction instance.

Once jobs come out and the game becomes much harder to "exploit" hopefully due to a heavy reliance on more complex party mechanics (and god save us from the whiners when that day happens) it may be a non-issue, I really doubt it though. People are always gonna train until raids finally degrade into one 30 second encounter +1000 loot lottery jackpots. And we all retreat to the countryside to try and remember what it felt like to be "human".

Maybe if certain bind on pick up items dropped from the trash. There items could be a valuable currency to buy top end items after you have accumulated a lot of them. Or maybe the mobs could give reputation towards a faction. I understand at some point people wont have a ned for the faction once they max it out but that could be weeks down the road or longer and then they would start avoiding the trash. I just hate seeing it in the first 2 days.