[Pole] Do you want to see the summoner class reworked?

[Akiza]

They should at least give re balance the Egis
Give Contagion to the Summoner and Garuda Egi Friction
Remove Radiant Shield from Ifrit Egi and replace with Eruption

[MartaDemireux]

Exstal already pointed out that there is no Arcanist class any FF but FF14

I believe Akiza means to say Final Fantasy Tactcis A2. There was indeed Arcanist in that game. Their skills were:

Syphon: Drains MP from the target.
Drain: " HP " " ".
Death: Instant death on a unit.
Gravity: Deals damage equal to 1/4 the target's HP.
Graviga: " " " " 1/2 " " ".
Lv. 3 Dark: Deals dark damage to all units with a level that is a multiple of 3.
Lv. 5 Haste: Hastes all units with a level that is a multiple of 5.
Lv. ? Shadow flare: Deals dark damage to all units that share the last digit of the level of the caster. Incl caster.

So not to stir the pot but Akiza is correct in that Arcanist in FFTA2 did share spells usually associated with Time Mage (Gravity/Graviga) and that some abilities from it were used or inspired by it for FFXIV (Shadow Flare, Syphon/Drain). She just had the wrong game title.

While I don't agree that SMN should be given more TIM-like tools (I really want TIM from either its own class or from THM) I do have to stand up for her on principle alone in that FFXIV's Arcanist does take some ideas from FFTA2's Arcanist which also happened to have some overlap with classic Time Magic which is understandable as FFTA2's Arcanist required 2 Time Mage abilities to unlock.

To build on that, the Time Mage from FFTA2 learned some abilities similar to our ACN. Among their repetoire were an AoE Slow (we see this in the additional effect to Shadow Flare) and Extend which extends buff/debuff timers (we see this with Emerald Carbuncle and by extension Garuda-egi).

Her train of thought should be clear to anyone with moderate FF experience or access to FFWiki. We need to stop the bullying/singling out on this forum, reputations aside.

[Dwill]

snip.

Syphon and Drain were merged as one we have it, it's called Energy Drain. The Gravity spell line is broken by default when applied to a MMO setting so no go on this. Haste is applied to people via Selene, which is a pet summon via Arcane Magick in this game. Elemantal Wheel isn't used in this game so Lv.3 Dark is useless. Death, I don't think this warrants an explanation and we have Shadow Flare, in an actual balanced form that matches the summoner playstyle. To my knowledge, only the Haste was AoE in FFT:A2, slow was single target. They also have Quick, which is doesn't really work in a MMO setting. I could see them work Stop into Tri-Disaster and removed the bind effect from it.

The reason people find Akiza's suggestions terrible, and with good reason, is that they don't take the aspect that this is a MMO. A lot of stuff that works in single player game are horribly broken when translated into a MMO setting so they either need to be reworked or not implemented at all, the latter being better in my opinion seeing as the former just won't be the same thing as player are used to.

[MartaDemireux]

.

Oh I know why they think what they do and why abilities like Lv X and Gravity(Demi) won't work in an MMORPG. I wasn't suggesting those abilities for FFXIV. I was listing them there to show that Arcanist in FFTA2 did in fact have classic Time Magic.

I'm afraid you misunderstood my post as I said that Syphon, Drain and Lv. ? Shadow Flare were used as inspiration from FFTA2's Arcanist and given to FFXIV's in a new way. Slow in FFTA2 was in fact AoE, look at the Arcanist page on FFWiki.

People were saying that the ONLY Arcanist in FF series is here in FFXIV. I had to correct that false information. It's easy to see why she would want more Time Magic in Arcanist if you look at the only other appearance Arcanist has made. Her request is validated by the fact that Arcanist has had Time Magic in the past, it doesn't mean it's feasible but it is valid.

People can disagree with an idea all they want but they can choose to do it in a more polite fashion. I've read too many stories of people getting bullied online with pre-existing depression, autism etc that didn't know better and killed themselves because they started to believe the bad things people were saying about them. I honestly don't want to read another. So many people complain about how toxic the FFXIV community is, well, here's a chance to help in the casting of Esuna.

[Akiza]

Syphon and Drain were merged as one we have it, it's called Energy Drain. The Gravity spell line is broken by default when applied to a MMO setting so no go on this. Haste is applied to people via Selene, which is a pet summon via Arcane Magick in this game. Elemantal Wheel isn't used in this game so Lv.3 Dark is useless. Death, I don't think this warrants an explanation and we have Shadow Flare, in an actual balanced form that matches the summoner playstyle. To my knowledge, only the Haste was AoE in FFT:A2, slow was single target. They also have Quick, which is doesn't really work in a MMO setting. I could see them work Stop into Tri-Disaster and removed the bind effect from it.

The reason people find Akiza's suggestions terrible, and with good reason, is that they don't take the aspect that this is a MMO. A lot of stuff that works in single player game are horribly broken when translated into a MMO setting so they either need to be reworked or not implemented at all, the latter being better in my opinion seeing as the former just won't be the same thing as player are used to.

Gravity couldv'e been reworked as a DoT ability since other MMO's seem to balance them fine
Dark works similar to Fire so the Developers can implement that spell
The only spells they can't implement from FFTA2 are Slow and Haste

[Azure_dragon-]

No, but a lot more egi's would make the class less boring.

[dragonfire8974]

Snp.

No offense, but you obviously haven't been in this thread long. A single classic time Mage spell does not equivocate ffta2 arcanist with time magic. Shadow flare is a monster ability, same with lvl.x stuff in the more broad ff universe. Drain, death, osmose are all classic black magic spells. While we do have siphon and drain wrapped in one, as well as shadow flare, this does not connect the arcanist in ffxiv with time magic. Read some of his responses, especially in the last couple pages

[Exstal]

People can disagree with an idea all they want but they can choose to do it in a more polite fashion. I've read too many stories of people getting bullied online with pre-existing depression, autism etc that didn't know better and killed themselves because they started to believe the bad things people were saying about them. I honestly don't want to read another. So many people complain about how toxic the FFXIV community is, well, here's a chance to help in the casting of Esuna.

There are many people who believe that people shouldn't stop bullying but people should teach children, and by extension adults, to defend themselves. You'll never end bullying, but that won't stop people from trying.

[Adamantium]

So many people complain about how toxic the FFXIV community is, well, here's a chance to help in the casting of Esuna.

I love how popular this word has become in the last two years or so.

Here is HotShotGG explaining just how toxic EVERYTHING is.

[Mjytresz]

Syphon and Drain were merged as one we have it, it's called Energy Drain. The Gravity spell line is broken by default when applied to a MMO setting so no go on this. Haste is applied to people via Selene, which is a pet summon via Arcane Magick in this game. Elemantal Wheel isn't used in this game so Lv.3 Dark is useless. Death, I don't think this warrants an explanation and we have Shadow Flare, in an actual balanced form that matches the summoner playstyle. To my knowledge, only the Haste was AoE in FFT:A2, slow was single target. They also have Quick, which is doesn't really work in a MMO setting. I could see them work Stop into Tri-Disaster and removed the bind effect from it.

The reason people find Akiza's suggestions terrible, and with good reason, is that they don't take the aspect that this is a MMO. A lot of stuff that works in single player game are horribly broken when translated into a MMO setting so they either need to be reworked or not implemented at all, the latter being better in my opinion seeing as the former just won't be the same thing as player are used to.

That argument is terrible for various reasons.
Allow me to explain:

First off, Gravity in the SP games dealt damage equivalent to a percentage of HP. There's nothing stating "If you're adding Gravity it has to be one of the 400 incarnations we've seen previously in the series." You can add a spell, change specifics, and keep the theme. There's nothing wrong with something like Stop, Haste, or even Gravity if you do it right. Just considering that Stop almost never worked on bosses, Selene's "Haste" right now has mediocre benefit, and Gravity can have its damage application and cooldown managed while still keeping theme.

Then again, I forgot which thread I'm posting in.

The sad part is the devs took two really strong class designs, melded them together, and got a 50+ page thread of bickering over designs from single player games. If I remember correctly, didn't FFIX have a character that stabbed people with a fork and ate them? Great job, guys.

DoT classes are pretty strong. Pet classes are pretty strong. They should've remained separate. There aren't many MMOs that combine class designs and pull it off well. Right now, SMN is something like 70% DoT class and 30% pet class. You're forced into this hole by default. You're not capable of full DPS with DoTs alone and you're not capable of pulling off a pet class effectively. Remind me why these designs were combined?

The best solution would be to just break them up. Remember summoners in the old games who were designed to just... y'know... summon things? There's no reason that can't work. Have SMN with a wide array of summon skills that can buff, debuff, and DPS. Something like casting Ifrit would AoE within 5 yalms and leave a burning effect.
For the DoT aspect, tons of other games have pulled that off. Make them squishy with built-in sustain and not just DoTs but DoT based spells (IE - Fester).

I feel like having the option of what I want to play is a lot more important than having one well-rounded compromise.