12 weeks of Coil T6+T7 without my loot dropping.

[Dwill]

And other mmos do just fine in this regard, and its pretty silly that you need EVERY ITEM to be perfect from the get go, this just shows how entitled people are and personal traits that you cant even deal with that few items not being perfect, players in other mmos get by fine, so can you.

It's not a matter of being perfect, it's a matter that if you raid the Coils, full Soldiery is not an option for nearly every DPS class out there. Unless you can magically tell me how having full Soldiery with sub 440 accuracy is an acceptable substitute to High Allagan, you lack the insight to comprehend why such a system has much more pros than cons.

You might not want to yourself (551 accuracy on Black Mage) but some people actually want to optimize their characters as best they can during a content cycle and some people can't because RNG gives them the middle finger. Someone with the current system can get get BiS pretty quick if they're lucky or never even come close to it if they aren't. A system similar to what Madoka suggested would alleviate quite a few issues.

There's a reason people go to the casino for fun. Playing the slots (RNG) is fun. Its exciting to win and yes, sometimes you hit a losing streak.
Working for a weekly paycheck (tokens) is not fun. Its work. There's no excitement in 100% predictable rewards.

My opinion, obviously. But I think its a pretty reasonable one.




edit: And before someone cries "You dont even do 2nd Coil!" -- That is irrelevant. The issue of random drops vs. token drops has affected aennd continues to affect various content in various games. IMO random drops are more exciting even when you get screwed, regardless of what game it is or if its high end or mid range content. Its just better game design.

Actually, it's not irrelevant since second coil is the only place in the game right now that locks you of an encounter whether you get loot or not and these types of encounters is the main core of the issue.

[silentwindfr]

It's not a matter of being perfect, it's a matter that if you raid the Coils, full Soldiery is not an option for nearly every DPS class out there. Unless you can magically tell me how having full Soldiery with sub 440 accuracy is an acceptable substitute to High Allagan, you lack the insight to comprehend why such a system has much more pros than cons.

actually the trouble lie in another bad design of the modern mmorpg. before it was commons to have different way to get the best stuff: raid, pvp, craft,... here it's raid or token only. if you are screw on the drop in raid, you have no choice than get the token, but like you did point out the token stuff is bad in some aspect for the dps. what is the solution then? none, because the game have focus all the endgame on one aspect.

even if they had craft, it will probably take raid drop for get it. the pvp are different and don't mix with the pve (thanks for this ^^). the only solution it's add another type of content that will reward same level of ilevel gears, but it need to be challenging... and sadly i doubt SE want to add another type of content like this. they follow the WoW model that totally bad on this side, we did see it with the hunt, it was possible to create another type of content challenging, but instead we did get a poor implemented NM system.

ps: i think they need to free themself from WoW model and create them own game. they have good underused system around that can be used for this, like the levequest system... sadly it seems it's not them priority.

[Dwill]

snip

Except that it's not optimal for people who do coils only. If people don't touch coils, then full Soldiery is an actual and viable upgrade. Other type of content really isn't a viable solution for Square Enix considering we aren't even getting Coils at a decent speed. So a token system would take much less developer time and could easily be balanced in term of speed of gear acquisition.

[Dyne_Fellpool]

Actually, it's not irrelevant since second coil is the only place in the game right now that locks you of an encounter whether you get loot or not and these types of encounters is the main core of the issue.

Except that I clearly said in multiple games. This is a game design issue, not unique to FFXIV and experience with it can reach far beyond just 2nd Coil.

There's a reason most people don't go back.

Well thats simply not true, at least in my experience.
Most people enjoy casinos, they are designed that way. Its human nature to enjoy gambling. Sure its not for everyone, but most people (as long as they dont bet more than they can afford) have a good time.

[silentwindfr]

...Most people enjoy casinos...

i know a lot of people that hate casino, me too actually, since be screw don't interest me. casino rips more people than people are winning against the casino, no new there.

Except that it's not optimal for people who do coils only. If people don't touch coils, then full Soldiery is an actual and viable upgrade. Other type of content really isn't a viable solution for Square Enix considering we aren't even getting Coils at a decent speed. So a token system would take much less developer time and could easily be balanced in term of speed of gear acquisition.

actually two trouble, outside coil, the i100 gears is useless in 98% of the content of the game, even Ramuh EX can be done in i90. i had already said it into another thread, i90 gears is enough for most content of the game. i100-110 actually are overkill... and i'm worried with the futur increase of ilevel since people doing raid will simply destroy all the balance between gears/skill and danger/reward.

why they take soo many time for give us coil? first it's needed to be balanced for offer a challenge to hardcore gamer, it's them goal, but must still be accessible to non hardcore gamer. it's why we did get soo many over scripted fight. from my view point, it's pointless to make a content that will please the hardcore gamer, since is not possible. either by them skill or time spend in the game, they will destroy all challenge, the trouble is after this, when they have destroy this content they have nothing to do.

like i have said, it's better to aim to high replayability with a good challenge content instead to extremely balanced content with low replayability.

[Dwill]

Except that I clearly said in multiple games. This is a game design issue, not unique to FFXIV and experience with it can reach far beyond just 2nd Coil.

You're saying that your inexperience is irrelevant because it happens in other games but the thing is that what happens in other game is irrelevant for this one. We are discussing an issue in this game and trying to find a solution for this game so your inexperience in this game is relevant to the topic at hand.

[scarebearz]

Well thats simply not true, at least in my experience.
Most people enjoy casinos, they are designed that way. Its human nature to enjoy gambling. Sure its not for everyone, but most people (as long as they dont bet more than they can afford) have a good time.

"Most" people don't enjoy losing money casino's and it's not even a good comparision anyway.

Very few people I know gamble frequently.

[raelgun]

It's not a matter of being perfect, it's a matter that if you raid the Coils.

some people actually want to optimize their characters as best they can during a content cycle.

You contradict yourself here, and find the sentence where I said get full SOLD gear, I said it fills in gaps, and those gap fillers are more then good enough, theres no reason to change the system and utterly ignore what SOLD gear was designed for to coil raiders, I have full comprehension on the matter, Ive raided in high end progression in WOW for a few years now.

Also I know what RNG is thank you, try waiting 8 months for a drop, did I act like people here, nope.

[Dwill]

You contradict yourself here, and find the sentence where I said get full SOLD gear, I said it fills in gaps, and those gap fillers are more then good enough, theres no reason to change the system and utterly ignore what SOLD gear was designed for to coil raiders, I have full comprehension on the matter, Ive raided in high end progression in WOW for a few years now.

Also I know what RNG is thank you, try waiting 8 months for a drop, did I act like people here, nope.

While I did indeed contradict myself in that sentence (I meant optimization for Coils, should have used better words), the main point still stands. You said Soldiery is a valid alternative to High Allagan:

Actually it wouldnt work, because we already have SOLD gear as the alternative to use, thats why its there to fill in the gaps. People are just being greedy and not looking at the bigger picture, there is an option, you are just refusing to accept it. Upgrade is an upgrade, thats how its always been, refusing an upgrade is just idiotic, get the alternative item, use it.

The thing is that not every Soldiery items is an upgrade for Coil raiders when accuracy is taken into account. That's something you aren't getting. You don't want to optimize your character (again 551 accuracy on Black Mage, which also makes me question what kind of "high end progression" you did on WoW), that's your issue. Don't bring everyone with you on this though.

By the way, come back after you've waited for a year for an item (Hello Jailer of Justice and Salvage).

[Dyne_Fellpool]

You're saying that your inexperience is irrelevant because it happens in other games but the thing is that what happens in other game is irrelevant for this one. We are discussing an issue in this game and trying to find a solution for this game so your inexperience in this game is relevant to the topic at hand.

No, I am saying that I am not inexperienced with the issue at all. That's the point. I've dealt with the issue of RNG loot vs. Token loot extensively. This is a game design issue, and its very relevant to much more than just 2nd Coil in FFXIV. This shouldn't be hard for you to grasp.

My point is that, in my experience with the issue (which is extensive), RNG is a better system than Token loot. I'd rather roll the dice than have everything 100% predictable. I'd rather play a game of chance where I can win big (BiS very early in content cycle) or, yes, possibly lose big too (never see that BiS item). Having all my gear acquisition mapped out, week by week, months ahead of time is boring. Yes this is largely opinion, but in the end the topic is subjective no matter how you look at it.

come back after you've waited for a year for an item

I've done that. Multiple xpacs, actually. But I dont feel entitled to BiS in every slot just because I raid endgame zones every week.
We get as close as we can to full-BiS, then a new xpac comes out and we do it all over again. Thats the nature of MMOs. Random loot drops is still a better system than Tokens, imo.