An open discsusion on the consequences of death

[Frade]

Bring back SP loss when your dead!

[Rentahamster]

Simple and true. Unfortunately, no system exists that will make everyone happy. Someone's always going to complain no matter what SE does in this situation.

I would suggest, instead of SP/EXP loss, an SP/EXP debt.
When you die, you get a 1% debt based off the total amount of SP/EXP required to level up. This debt should gradually fade with RL time. Say, 48 hours or something.

For example:
It takes 10,000 SP to rank up to the next rank. You die while having 1,000 SP. You'll still have 1,000 SP, but you'll need to "work off" an extra 100 SP before you can move beyond your currently earned 1,000. Each time you die, this 1% debt stacks on itself. Being raised by a player could lessen the 1% penalty.

1% is not harsh at all, and it's not no penalty. Best of both worlds IMO.

1% is not harsh, yes, but that's still a penalty. Might as well have lost 100 SP, it's the same thing.

The two systems I outlined above "rewarded for staying alive" and "hardcore mode" give the player some freedom in how he wants to play. You are never penalized in SP for death, only rewarded for playing well via stat boosts and ego boosts.

[Endemerrin]

I would suggest, instead of SP/EXP loss, an SP/EXP debt.
When you die, you get a 1% debt based off the total amount of SP/EXP required to level up. This debt should gradually fade with RL time. Say, 48 hours or something.

That isn't a bad base to build off, IMO. An addition I might suggest is maybe having the penalty scale if you die multiple times within a certain time-frame after an initial death.

Maybe on your first death you take the 1% hit. For one hour after that death, each subsequent death would double it. So 2%, 4%, 8%, 16%, etc.

Every hour after your last death, the penalty scales down in proportion to your current percentage. So if you have accumulated a 16% debt, it scales down by 8% an hour. If you've accumlated an 8% debt, it scales down by 4% an hour.

Sadly, when it comes down to it, it seems like a rather complicated system that probably wouldn't be looked at.

[ryuuseikan]

You didn't like mine? I thought it was pretty good.

I don't think making the system complex will make it perform in a more balanced way, as we know complex systems are hard to balance. There needs to be a simple, elegant, and considerably better DP scheme...

[Rentahamster]

I don't think making the system complex will make it perform in a more balanced way, as we know complex systems are hard to balance. There needs to be a simple, elegant, and considerably better DP scheme...

I didn't think it was that complex. If you think it's too complicated, it can always be simplified. My main goal was to reward the player for good play, not punish him unduly for dying.

Otherwise, the "hardcore mode" approach would keep things even more simple, as causal won't even have to deal with it, but those players who do want a more hardcore experience can choose to partake in it, and reap the rewards of taking higher risk as well.

[Ceons]

When they are time sinks and obstacles in game, people always complain about how it sucks and that sucks and it's horrible design and I lost my whole days of work and it's my 68try doing this and how come I still didn't get the X drop and OMG I have to carry 4 weapons around and I have to repair my gear too often and this cost too much etc...

And when they make it so you don't have penalty like you can just enjoy the game? Then you have people saying o... I like penalties, I want a 'challenge', I WANT to be penalized for X Y and Z... = My time is not valuable, I want you to make me work twice as hard so I feel I have truly earned my status in this game...

This just tells me some people like complaining in general.

Did you rank up too quickly because of lack of punishment? Rank up another job. #

How great is it going to be grouping up when on top of losing time and having to repair gear and everyone thinking how much PLAYER1 sucks, they have to be punished too cause PLAYER1 sucks... Maybe cause PLAYER1 made a mistake, cause shit happens sometimes. Yea, great way to promote group play and communication.

[MariyaShidou]

So much debate for Death Penalty, it's fine as it is just need much harder fight. Even nowadays full loot PvP-centric games has insurance and soul-bound equipments.

[Rimmer]

Theres enough penalties in this game already...remove fatigue and i'll be all for an SP death penalty..

[Rentahamster]

Or how about this: Hardcore Mode

The game Diablo II gives you a choice of playing in hardcore mode where the penalty of death is permanent. This gives players who want that kind of experience the option to have it, and the players who don't want it can just play normal mode.

This same concept can be fit to FF14.

Let there be some NPC somewhere that gives you a quest ( a difficult quest), and after you complete the quest you have the ability to go back to the NPC at anytime and toggle your play mode to either "normal" or "hardcore".

Normal mode is just like how we play now.

If you choose to toggle hardcore mode, you will experience SP loss upon death. However, you will get a special visual cue on your character's appearance, or some kind of cool marker that let's everyone else know that you're a badass.

In hardcore mode, you get +5% atk or def or +5% SP gain or gil from leves or whatever, I dunno, some kinda of incentive to balance the risk/reward.

Sounds good?

Oh, and one more thing - cooldown to toggle hardcore mode is one week.

[Argh]

there is no reward without risk.

racing to end game is not my thing.

if the children can't handle xp loss then they should bring out a couple servers with classic ffxi rule sets so the veterans can a real adventure.