Challenge vs. reward: turn 5

[Samsta]

1/ How exactly that T5 is challenging, in what way, with 20% echo buff and most everyone's gear right now is ilv 95+???

It is challenging since it still has many mechanics that need to be mastered (divebombs, twister) that will kill you no matter the echo and ilvl, and finding a group able to handle all those is challenging

2/ Why do you think T5 not give enough rewards compare to its challenge level (again in what way???), given it is the old content made for the past?

The devs actually have made old content to have a meaning (hard modes in trial roulette, mounts in extreme modes, desynth materials from high level dungeons and hard modes) so people would still do it, first coil doesn't have any meaning so people don't do it, and that is not problematic since it is very easy now except turn 5 which is still challenging

3/ You compared T5 with LEVI extreme, one was made before the other and both were made with different kind of ideas in mind (Coils are for Hardcore players vs Primals Ex are for most of the player base)

Yes they still give the same ilvl weapons, which doesn't make sense to me if the other is much harder than the other, but maybe this is just me.

4/ How in the world and why do you think, just because people fail at T5 via DF, that you think T5 is challenging, yet not enough rewards???

The idea comes from the fact that I have completed most of the content I have done (ex primals except ramuh) via df without that many problems, while I have much harder time with t5

5/ Your idea is to raise the rewards, (aka better ILv loots), so people have easier time to do T5 which is completely wrong. ILV, Echo does not make a good player, Skill and the knowledge of the fight distinguish a good player from a bad player.

I would not say raising the rewards is the right way, but giving something new (for example mount) so people would start doing it,which would mean that a player that has yet to complete it would get more parties that have players that know what they are doing so they can learn the fight, insted of just running to parties full of new players who have no idea what they are doing, I am fine with new hard content not being beatable with df, but since t5 is very old content now it should be

That is why I said, instead of wasting your time here, find help from your friends, and learn the fight. Even as casual, I hardly believe you can't even find a group of 7 players that are capable of teaching you in T5 and complete it

The thing is, in my experience not many people who have completed the fight want to do it again just to help people, and I am not a player who likes to buy runs.

P/s Titan ex is more challenge than T5. You know why? Because T5 can still be cleared with 5 people and the dead 3 can still be revived while as in Titan, one wrong move you are gone forever!!!

I have to disagree with you on that, titan ex is mostly just a individual effort, not much group effort in it, and I find it to be much easier than turn 5, much more completable with df group

[NoahG]

...so people would start doing it,which would mean that a player that has yet to complete it would get more parties that have players that know what they are doing so they can learn the fight, insted of just running to parties full of new players who have no idea what they are doing...

You do not need a party of 7 ppl who know what they are doing in order to learn the fight, the whole point of raiding is progressing as a group... playing with ppl of your skill lvl so that all of you learn the fight at the same time.

If you need 7 ppl who know the fight you are basically asking for a carry which will hurt you once you get to SCOB, if you can't handle the mechanics in T5 you won't be able to handle SCOB.

If you want to beat T5 DF is certainly not the way to do it, try to form a LS of reliable people, i'm sure there are more people like you that are interested in progressing T5 and beyond.

[LionKing]

1/ You said T5 has many mechanics that can one shot people no matter the Ilv and echo? I will correct it by saying only 1, Twister. Divebomb is not strong enough to one shot people, given their ILV is 95+ ever, Wall is the one that kills you, when you get knocked into the Wall by Divebomb. Ignoring about finding a group that can handle those challenges in T5, at least if you die, you can still be resurrected and the area is big enough for you not to manoeuvre around without worrying about touching the wall. While as in Titan Ex, LEVI Ex, falling off the area/ boat, you are gone for good, not enough people to kill the Heart/adds or Plumes means a wipe. If you can find a group to handle Titan/LEVI ex, you can find yourself people who can handle Divebomb/Twister nowadays. Again, try harder.

2/ One more, you don't understand the differences in purpose between Primals fight and Coil Fights. People need Primals fights to progress in their story mode and to unlock most of the content out there. Primal fights are aim for those who is casual, not interested in Coil one way or another. Coil was built for hardcore, those who love to challenge themselves, and it is not compulsory for you to clear it to fully enjoy the game. In Final Fatansy series, Primals are always one of the important aspect of the whole game whilst Coil is a small expanded part of the whole story. In shorts, Primals are for casual and average players, thus they are easy. Coils are for hardcore and love challenging players, thus they are harder but not challenging.

3/ You wonder why LEVI Ex gives out the same Ilv weapon as Coil's weapon while being significantly easier and does not make sense to you? I will tell you why. Back to the day where LEVI Ex is not around, Coil's weapon was the one and only ilv95 weapon you could achieved and only by clearing T5, you had a chance to have them. However, because there are still casual players and those who are not interested in doing Coil, SE decided to give Levi Ex drop Ilv95 weapon, so that those players, without doing Coil, still have a chance to wield ilv 95 weapon. Again, nothing does not make sense when one was existed long before the other was add. And they are served for different purposes, target various types of player. You can also say the same for Ramuh and Unweathered weapon (back to the day Sand and Oil and UTS only exist in Coil, Noxus and T9 weapon.

4/ I cleared all the contents available at the moment, yet I still see people failed at TiTan HM/Garuda Ex/, heck even Garuda HM, can I voice my opinion saying that Titan HM/Garuda HM/Garuda EX are so challenging? You have the wrong idea. Again, like I said, using DF to gauge the challenge level of any content is wrong completely.

5/ and 6/ You are playing an MMORPG, interacting and make friends with players are important. Expand your circle, reach out to them for help, ask around your FC,LS,World for members, you just need the clear right, just go out and ask, I am sure they will not turn you away for having 15 mins of their playing times, given they are all capable of one shot T5. If not, you can always make friends with them and ask for help some other days. You run with them before, so you know who is capable, who is incapable. So, the more people you run with (not via DF ofc) the easier it will get when you want to have a full party. Prove to them that you are not the one wasting their time (perfectly executed of all mechanics), then ask them if they can come another time if you happens to fail but not by your faults. I am sure, they will say Yes. And again, the idea of any content should be clear-able via DF just because it is old is wrong. Buy run or not, it is up to you. If you think you understand fully well the whole T5, not making any mistakes but because of people sucks, feel free to buy run and not feel bad for yourself if you want to save your time and frustration. If you still want to buy run while you yourself are the inexperienced one, then yeah, you should feel bad.

7/ When I say Titan Ex is more challenging than T5, I don't mean individuals skill vs Group skill. Group skill comes from individuals skill. I could strongly say T5 is all individuals skill because it is individuals's responsibility to execute every mechanic right (get moving when Twintania Focus appears, get moving when a small little bar called Twister being cast). What I meant was in Titan, there is no way to resurrect the dead players once they fall to the pit or having a massive lag hit whilst in T5, they can always be resurrected as many times as you want as long as you have enough mana for tanks and you think by raising them, you are not wasting your mana.

[Samsta]

If you can find a group to handle Titan/LEVI ex, you can find yourself people who can handle Divebomb/Twister.

Except that no one is doing T5, so finding one is really hard.