To the Complainers... GTFO, 1.18 ROCKS!

[Koga]

EXHALTATION A NEW WORD THM's WILL LEARN TO USE IN THEIR VOCAB. Perhaps we will see 1 healer in unactive mode when another main heals to maintain proper healing like in FFXI. people are afraid of changes and instead of thinking HOW they will get around the new barriers they drop dead and whine or die or ragequit. Fail more.

[Shai]

EXHALTATION A NEW WORD THM's WILL LEARN TO USE IN THEIR VOCAB. Perhaps we will see 1 healer in unactive mode when another main heals to maintain proper healing like in FFXI. people are afraid of changes and instead of thinking HOW they will get around the new barriers they drop dead and whine or die or ragequit. Fail more.

Maybe we should see 1 Archer doing damage while the other one stands around passively to maintain proper enmity.

WHO THE *** IS PLAYING THIS GAME TO STAND AROUND WATCHING?
How can you justify this as "strategic" "balance" "fun" "good *** idea"
I don't see you doing it.

Next time you are in a battle with 2 MRD, make sure you sit and watch the other one for 5-6 TP attacks, then switch off and let me know how *** fun that is for you, bro. It's *** terrible and stupid. XI was boring as *** and now so is XIV.

[SuzakuCMX]

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.]

Having two healers (which you should have anyways) switching to keep the party alive.....

....vs. nobody even knows what the hell you were trying to say with two archers since another archer's enmity does not affect you unless he is doing more (so he's trying to get you killed by not gaining enmity or what?).

[Shai]

Having two healers (which you should have anyways) switching to keep the party alive.....

....vs. nobody even knows what the hell you were trying to say with two archers since another archer's enmity does not affect you unless he is doing more (so he's trying to get you killed by not gaining enmity or what?).

The point I'm making is no job, regardless of role, should have to sit on the sidelines during a fight.
That's something we had to do in XI and XI had one of the most boring battle systems I've ever played.

If I'm in the fight, I want to be in the fight. Do I think MP on Cure and Raise should have been increased? Yes, I sure do. Do I think it should be that after 7 casts of a spell I have to wait 3 minutes to rejoin my companions? No, not at all.

Archers can control their damage and thus their enmity. They can slow their shooting speed, pace their buffs. They can do a lot to shed enmity and still be engaged and participating. There's no way a system that REQUIRED Archers to simply put their bow away and stand idle for 3 minutes would EVER, EVER, EVER take off in ANY MMO. So why should mages have to do it? Because that's the status quo?

...but XIV already broke that status quo? I already was casting DOT, nuking, Spirit Dart, Healing, Siphoning, Tanking sometimes - I was doing all kinds of *** and having fun, for 30 *** minute fights sometimes. My MP wasn't infinite. I did have to ease up or slow down or when *** hit the fan put my weapon away and regen 100-200 - but never ever did I zero out during a normal fight and then just have to sit back and let someone else sub into the game for me.

You really think that's an acceptable model? and if so why is it so unacceptable for melee? Why aren't they forced to sit out and watch while another melee subs in for them?

How is this strategic, how is it balanced, how does this make playing more fun?
Can you answer that?

The analogy isn't bad. It's a double standard.

[SuzakuCMX]

The point I'm making is no job, regardless of role, should have to sit on the sidelines during a fight.
That's something we had to do in XI and XI had one of the most boring battle systems I've ever played.

If I'm in the fight, I want to be in the fight. Do I think MP on Cure and Raise should have been increased? Yes, I sure do. Do I think it should be that after 7 casts of a spell I have to wait 3 minutes to rejoin my companions? No, not at all.

Archers can control their damage and thus their enmity. They can slow their shooting speed, pace their buffs. They can do a lot to shed enmity and still be engaged and participating. There's no way a system that REQUIRED Archers to simply put their bow away and stand idle for 3 minutes would EVER, EVER, EVER take off in ANY MMO. So why should mages have to do it? Because that's the status quo?

...but XIV already broke that status quo? I already was casting DOT, nuking, Spirit Dart, Healing, Siphoning, Tanking sometimes - I was doing all kinds of *** and having fun, for 30 *** minute fights sometimes. My MP wasn't infinite. I did have to ease up or slow down or when *** hit the fan put my weapon away and regen 100-200 - but never ever did I zero out during a normal fight and then just have to sit back and let someone else sub into the game for me.

You really think that's an acceptable model? and if so why is it so unacceptable for melee? Why aren't they forced to sit out and watch while another melee subs in for them?

How is this strategic, how is it balanced, how does this make playing more fun?
Can you answer that?

The analogy isn't bad. It's a double standard.

Either you make MP infinite or you have healers start sitting out to regen MP. No two ways about it.

[Physic]

Either you make MP infinite or you have healers start sitting out to regen MP. No two ways about it.

incorrect, you can make mana into a replenishable thing via skills. or have preventive magic spells, like a spell that halves the dmg on one target, spreads dmg out, reduces dmg based on your stats, or skills. Take a look at GW 1, they really made the healer class have a number of different styles, and also made it so with proper skill use, you rarely ran out of mp in a good build.

the failure of the current system is resorting to having people wait on mp while doing nothing, instead of actively managing mp, or using skills that prevent dmg actively.

But it is possible that if you use all your tools, maybe you can not put away your weapon, i dunno havent tried con yet, but i prolly wont.

[Physic]

The point I'm making is no job, regardless of role, should have to sit on the sidelines during a fight.
That's something we had to do in XI and XI had one of the most boring battle systems I've ever played.

If I'm in the fight, I want to be in the fight. Do I think MP on Cure and Raise should have been increased? Yes, I sure do. Do I think it should be that after 7 casts of a spell I have to wait 3 minutes to rejoin my companions? No, not at all.

Archers can control their damage and thus their enmity. They can slow their shooting speed, pace their buffs. They can do a lot to shed enmity and still be engaged and participating. There's no way a system that REQUIRED Archers to simply put their bow away and stand idle for 3 minutes would EVER, EVER, EVER take off in ANY MMO. So why should mages have to do it? Because that's the status quo?

...but XIV already broke that status quo? I already was casting DOT, nuking, Spirit Dart, Healing, Siphoning, Tanking sometimes - I was doing all kinds of *** and having fun, for 30 *** minute fights sometimes. My MP wasn't infinite. I did have to ease up or slow down or when *** hit the fan put my weapon away and regen 100-200 - but never ever did I zero out during a normal fight and then just have to sit back and let someone else sub into the game for me.

You really think that's an acceptable model? and if so why is it so unacceptable for melee? Why aren't they forced to sit out and watch while another melee subs in for them?

How is this strategic, how is it balanced, how does this make playing more fun?
Can you answer that?

The analogy isn't bad. It's a double standard.

basically i agree, if they wanted to increase mp management, they should have more management tools, it would also have been better if they wanted to make a dedicated healer, that they actually add a new class instead of shoehorning whm into con.

Doing large mp sink cures also wouldnt be as bad if there was more preventive protection and support abilities.

the new mp sink heavy system is creating a mini return to the resting system, that i think everyone was happy to see go, if they wanted you to manage your mp, they need to give you mp management skills, not just put away your weapon and do nothing. you should have better means of getting mp in battle than putting away your weapon and waiting.

It needs more balancing, or more skills, or maybe a different class doing it.

Its funny that they made con good at all magic, but just by making cures important, and making it con specific by an large, they have essentially made it so they will be forced to be WHM 90% of the time.

oh wells

[Jabo]

The point I'm making is no job, regardless of role, should have to sit on the sidelines during a fight.

You don't just sit around, you time your ability's! Better timing, less waiting.
How people really want mindless spamming back is beyond me. Seriously.
I like playing healers and i couldn't be more happy about the fact that healing finally means something.
This game was waaaaaaaay too easy. Especially for mages...

[Shai]

You don't just sit around, you time your ability's! Better timing, less waiting.
How people really want mindless spamming back is beyond me. Seriously.
I like playing healers and i couldn't be more happy about the fact that healing finally means something.
This game was waaaaaaaay too easy. Especially for mages...

Spoken like a true non-mage.

I don't set the timing, bub. How much damage my *** party members takes does. I can Cure 1x a fight or 100x a fight depending on *** out of my control. I don't even understand what abilities you're talking about and what you expect me to do when I'm down to 10mp and have a 8min wait on Tranquility. I should start spamming Trance Chant? I should Spirit Bind and find a 20mp spell?

I definitely just sit around when I'm out of MP. I have nothing more to contribute because 1.18 made sure of it.

Edit: If you (as a Gladiator) surrounded yourself with mages who "mindlessly" spammed Cure 3 AOE rather than actually use their *** abilities like Spirit Dart, Nuke (assuming you guys BR - wild assumption, though), keep up at least 3 if not 5 Damage-Over-Time, then you were really setting your entire team at a disadvantage and you should fire those guys.

I mean honestly. Do you really think all there was to being a mage yesterday is mindless AOE Cure Spam? That's your stance on it? I'm here to tell you it was a lot more complex - in fact it was as complex as the mage player himself wanted it to be and the better he multitasked the easier fights were for everyone, but now I just kinda stand around waiting to cure because god forbid I run out of MP and we wipe.

[Jabo]

Spoken like a true non-mage.

As you can see i have a Rank 29 THM and a Rank 22 CON which i leveld in the first month of the game where getting to Rank 20 took a week. Plus i play in every MMO a Paladin and a White Mage. So healing is kind of the most important matter to me, regarding MMOs.

I don't set the timing, bub. How much damage my idiot party members takes does.

You have Sacrifice, you have cure, you have Siphon MP. You also have Potions and you can put points in MND or buy MP gear, if you have a MP problem.
Also it depends on what you are doing. Grind Party? Than you need at least a backup healer or a tank who can watch his HP a little? Behest and Leves? Never an MP issue. Soloing? Was never meant to be for grinding!

I definitely just sit around when I'm out of MP. I have nothing more to contribute because 1.18 made sure of it.

1.18 made every party member think for once what they are doing. The amount you could spam healing spells was ridiculous. It was so ridiculous that people stopped thinking of how they could improve their healing.
Now they have to thing more about their stats, their gear and their way to play.

Edit: If you (as a Gladiator) surrounded yourself with mages who "mindlessly" spammed Cure 3 AOE rather than actually use their *** abilities like Spirit Dart, Nuke (assuming you guys BR - wild assumption, though), keep up at least 3 if not 5 Damage-Over-Time, then you were really setting your entire team at a disadvantage and you should fire those guys.

Where are you getting that? I said people could and did spam cure. I didn't say it was all they were doing.
Also i talked from a healer perspective not a Gladiator one.

I mean honestly. Do you really think all there was to being a mage yesterday is mindless AOE Cure Spam? That's your stance on it?

And again. I never said that!
Healing was mindless spamming, not playing a mage!

I'm here to tell you it was a lot more complex - in fact it was as complex as the mage player himself wanted it to be and the better he multitasked the easier fights were for everyone, but now I just kinda stand around waiting to cure because god forbid I run out of MP and we wipe.

You say it was complex, I say mages kicked the butt out of everything in this game. They did ridiculous damage and they could heal non stop or did you see a melee class soloing NM's?
Mages were way to powerful. This is the truth "bro".