Please reconsider stance on blue mage

[LineageRazor]

Done like in FFXI, Blue Mage brings two things to the table;

Corrected it for you. As has been noted in earlier posts, the FFXI style of BLU, while fun, shouldn't be considered the be-all and end-all of BLU. FFXI's BLU was VERY different from previous BLUs in the FF series. It's the exception, not the standard for BLU.

Insisting that BLU in FFXIV needs to be a direct port of BLU from FFXI will go nowhere; FFXI was a very different game. If they consider even a basic elemental wheel to be too "exclusionary", the odds of them adding a monster family wheel are laughable at best.

See, the developers would need to actually sit down and see what would need to be adjusted to make it work while retaining the core concept of the job. Blue Mage is VERY easy because the core concept of BLU is "mage that uses monster skills". Everything else is fluff, including the heals/nukes/buffs and the role-select thing that FFXI went with.

THIS is the thing to remember. BLU is a magic user that uses monster abilities. Start with THAT core, and build up to a job that fits within the framework FFXIV provides. Compared to FFXI, all classes in FFXIV are ridiculously simple and focused in their scope. If you want to promote a class that SE has even a faint hope of considering, you're going to promote a version of BLU that is similarly simple and focused.

No huge spell lists. No abilities that give them advantages over specific types of mobs that other classes don't have. Can it be different than current classes? Absolutely. Can it be more complicated than current classes? Very unlikely.

Yoshi P's mind won't be changed by presenting him with a ridiculously complicated class that requires reworking the fundamentals present in the game. He MIGHT be swayed by proving that BLU CAN work within the system that already exists.

[NyneAlexander]

What if blue mage had 3 separate soul stones for different classes, and then could gather spells from different mobs for those roles. For example: Blue Mage (healer) could gather healing and regen skills, and then flag dungeons as a healer. Or you could switch to another soul stone, and be Blue Mage (tank) where you have a whole other set of traits/spells for tanking.

The only issue I forsee with this is getting gear, but they could make the gear have "active" stats that change depending on which soul stone you have equipped.

[Asierid]

What if blue mage had 3 separate soul stones for different classes, and then could gather spells from different mobs for those roles. For example: Blue Mage (healer) could gather healing and regen skills, and then flag dungeons as a healer. Or you could switch to another soul stone, and be Blue Mage (tank) where you have a whole other set of traits/spells for tanking.

The only issue I forsee with this is getting gear, but they could make the gear have "active" stats that change depending on which soul stone you have equipped.

Overcomplicated. Not to mention giving three different roles to one class is overkill and not the direction of the game to begin with. The only thing that could even remotely be attributed to BLU would be either DPS or support, and support roles don't exist in this game as of now.

[NyneAlexander]

Overcomplicated. Not to mention giving three different roles to one class is overkill and not the direction of the game to begin with. The only thing that could even remotely be attributed to BLU would be either DPS or support, and support roles don't exist in this game as of now.

I don't think giving three roles to one class is overkill in the slightest. In fact, I think we need much more versatility from a new class that arguably everyone will want to play. Better than introducing a new, popular class that will only serve as DPS (cough, ninja).

As was mentioned numerous times in this thread, in FFXI, BLU served as any role in a party. Why not the same here?

[Asierid]

in FFXI

Welcome to XIV. XI is over there.

There needs to be a banner on the top of this forum that says this isn't XI, so stop trying to copy XI ideas. This game has one role per class, unless they change their minds (doubt it, as it's been asked before), that is not changing. We can stop trying to give three roles to one class now. End of story.

[NyneAlexander]

Welcome to XIV. XI is over there.

There needs to be a banner on the top of this forum that says this isn't XI, so stop trying to copy XI ideas. This game has one role per class, unless they change their minds (doubt it, as it's been asked before), that is not changing. We can stop trying to give three roles to one class now. End of story.

Thats crazy. Cause I swore I had multiple options when I was leveling arcanist.

I UNDERSTAND THAT FFXIV IS NOT FFXI. But please understand, that when discussing something completely theoretical, it makes sense to reference the only other iteration of a particular class/job in an MMO setting.

I ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT FFXI HAD A DIFFERENT PARTY STRUCTURE THAN FFXIV But that doesn't mean that BLU need be pigeonholed into one party class. Again, if arcanist (the only new job since 1.0) can change the structure of "1 job, 1 class" then why can't others?

[Asierid]

Arcanist is a DPS. Summoner is a DPS. Scholar is a Healer.

One role per class/job. I fail to see where you are attempting to go with this. BLU, if introduced, will follow the same format. You can sit here and attempt to theoretically argue how it should not be so it all you want, but SE will keep it that way unless they backpedal on their "one for one" stance. Trying to go against that is really not making any sort of progress on getting BLU into the game to begin with.

That being said, also attempting to theoretically create a class, one has to take into consideration the systems currently in place. If we agree that XI's systems would not work here, than there is no point in comparing the two. It wouldn't work regardless. Stop.

BLU will only work if they add in monster families and elemental spells or let us learn boss abilites to get any sort of variety. Both of which are a bit of a stretch.

[Nalien]

Insisting that BLU in FFXIV needs to be a direct port of BLU from FFXI will go nowhere; FFXI was a very different game. If they consider even a basic elemental wheel to be too "exclusionary", the odds of them adding a monster family wheel are laughable at best.

I'm not suggesting a direct port of XIs Blue Mage. I'd rather see a stance based Blue Mage to allow for the large spell list, than have to set various skills with various stats boosts attached that also combine to give various traits. Cloudkin Stance would provide Bird based skills and a bonus to attacking Vilekin enemies, for example. A DPS similar to Summoner, just with stances instead of pets, but keeping something similar to the pet hotbar for Blue Magic skills. Technically speaking we've already got a Physical/Magical skill with Summoner, by switching between Ifrit and Garuda Egi (and Titan I guess).

The elemental wheel isn't included because it is a balance issue for the entire game. A monster based wheel could literally just be a unique aspect for Blue Mage; even if it wasn't, Beastmaster is the only other Job that would see an impact from it since no other Job uses enemy based skills, while the vast majority use elemental skills in some form. Strictly speaking, a monster wheel is just orders of magnitude easier, and more balanced, to implement than an elemental one, unless they limit all elemental skills to one or two Jobs, but then we lose a fair chunk of the Final Fantasy Jobs list (including Blue Mage).

What alternative would you actually suggest to have Blue Mage in XIV in a unique fashion? Having it just effectively be Black Mage that has to go out and learn its spells doesn't really cut it, nor does it really affect combat in any way. It's all very nice to say "Stop taking inspiration from XI", but you're not exactly offering an alternative to how Blue Mage could work in this game. I don't even remember the monster wheel being that effective in XI for Blue Mage. Throw it in here with stances and Blue Mage could even be a Tank if they reuse the intimidate aspect (Cloudkin stance, Vilekin get intimidated, you use Cloudkin skills). They could do a lot of interesting things with the concept, certainly better than just "it learns its skill from monsters and they're all pretty much the same".

[NyneAlexander]

Arcanist is a DPS. Summoner is a DPS. Scholar is a Healer.

One role per class/job.

lol. If it makes you feel better, then refer to it as Blue Tank, Blue Healer, Blue DPS. Also.. no need to be rude.

[Asierid]

lol. If it makes you feel better, then refer to it as Blue Tank, Blue Healer, Blue DPS. Also.. no need to be rude.

I wasn't being rude, unless pointing out the flaws in your argument is now considered rude. The concepts to make BLU a tank or whatever are great. They just won't be put into this game due to how they work the classes. BLU will only be one of the three, and going by every other game BLU has been in, it will be DPS (Maybe even support if they choose to add that role).

That being said, in order to make BLU feasible in any sense, would be to make a new system for it. An ideal system would be add in elemental attributes to spells, but then SE would have to rework the entire spell list for the other classes as well. Monster families? That is more Beast Master, but still, SE would have to fit each and every NPC into a "family". Learn the current monster skills? That's great, except all of the current monster (Save like 3) skills are just reskins of spells we already have. Unless we could learn spells such as Death Sentence, it would be nothing more than Red Mage with differently named skills.

They would have to make something completely new in order for BLU to work, and they don't know how. That's why they said no. And quite frankly, given the amount of resources and time they would need and lack of money SE has already between other (failed) titles I don't see it happening any time soon.