WHY ARE YOU PLAYING A BARD IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SING?!

[Sessurea]

bard 1v1 dps is toned down a lot compared to other dps classes. They MUST sing to make up for this, or they are just a waste of space, in all honesty.

[scarebearz]

bard 1v1 dps is toned down a lot compared to other dps classes. They MUST sing to make up for this, or they are just a waste of space, in all honesty.

A half-decent Bard will still out-dps all other classes in a DF party 90% of the time.

They don't need to make up for anything, bards can do more than enough DPS on any fight to more than pull their weight regardless of songs are used or not.

[Fyce]

A half-decent Bard will still out-dps all other classes in a DF party 90% of the time.

They don't need to make up for anything, bards can do more than enough DPS on any fight to more than pull their weight regardless of songs are used or not.

Well, if you're just talking about doing more damage than a random pub MNK in Sastasha during your low roulette, then yeah, you get a point.
But you're still a bad bard.

[scarebearz]

Well, if you're just talking about doing more damage than a random pub MNK in Sastasha during your low roulette, then yeah, you get a point.
But you're still a bad bard.

Such clueless replies xD

Go DF some primals, keep an eye on what the DPS classes are doing and you'll soon see what I mean ^_-

As for me personally being a "Bad bard", well I'm a BLM with alt WHM, I do have an i90ish Bard and I've never claimed to be good on it. But that said I can still out dps a lot of better geared DF Bards, as most (I expect including many posting here) are useless, regardless of if they Sing or not.

[Fyce]

Such clueless replies xD

Go DF some primals, keep an eye on what the DPS classes are doing and you'll soon see what I mean ^_-

As for me personally being a "Bad bard", well I'm a BLM with alt WHM, I do have an i90ish Bard and I've never claimed to be good on it. But that said I can still out dps a lot of better geared DF Bards, as most (I expect including many posting here) are useless, regardless of if they Sing or not.

- If you don't pop a Foe when there are mages in your group, you're not maximising the damage output your party can do, therefore, you are failing at your role as a DPS.
- If you are not supporting a healer in need of MP and thus, lead to the death of a party member (or even the tank/entire group), then you're again reducing the overall damage your party can do, if someone actually dies because of that.
- Same thing goes for the TP/MP songs when someone just got revived. If you let, say, a MNK/DRG with no TP to use (and Invigorate being on cooldown) after a raise, then he won't do much and the overall DPS of the party will decrease.

If you only care about yourself and don't want to support your party when needed in order to maximime the damage of you and your group, then you are a bad bard.
Should I have to remind you what the role of DPS is all about? Yes, killing things. If you don't use the tools you have at your disposal to allow your party to do that in a more efficient way, then you are doing it wrong.

Edit: I don't really care what class you're playing. I'm saying "you" as a bard, no matter if you are playing it or not. It's just a general statement.

[Aegis]

- Same thing goes for the TP/MP songs when someone just got revived. If you let, say, a MNK/DRG with no TP to use (and Invigorate being on cooldown) after a raise, then he won't do much and the overall DPS of the party will decrease.

Your argument is that the BRD is the problem here? Not the dead DPS? They've cost the party the damage they've failed to contribute while on the floor, the MP and time the healer has had to raise them and protect/cure them back up, the damage lost while the Bard is unable to attack while he sings just for them and the damage penalty the Bard takes while propping them back up to a decent TP level.

There are few fights where there are no breaks in the action or no voidzones to dodge that would cause MNK/DRG to burn through their TP. There only need to be a couple of ticks rest every few minutes to keep MNK/DRG at TP-equilibrium.

And in those fights by dying the MNK/DRG have just made you lose anyway, so I woudn't worry too much.

[scarebearz]

Edit: I don't really care what class you're playing. I'm saying "you" as a bard, no matter if you are playing it or not. It's just a general statement.

Then I'll do the same:

If You are running out of MP as a healer in DF, You are a bad healer.

If You are not passing DPS checks in DF, Your teams DPS sucks.

If You are dying (thus needing TP or MP Song), you suck at dodging.


Here is a good example from the OP's post:

Me healing 8 man trial roulette. Bard sits in plumes 5 times. I raise Bard 5 times. Other healer off the edge.

Doesn't get Ballad from any of the three bards in the party.

Why on earth would You raise the same useless Bard 5 times in Titan HM, why not leave him dead and focus on saving you MP to heal those who can actually dodge? xD

[reality_check]

Then I'll do the same:

If You are running out of MP as a healer in DF, You are a bad healer.

^^^ doesn't understand Holy.

[Fyce]

Your argument is that the BRD is the problem here? Not the dead DPS? They've cost the party the damage they've failed to contribute while on the floor, the MP and time the healer has had to raise them and protect/cure them back up, the damage lost while the Bard is unable to attack while he sings just for them and the damage penalty the Bard takes while propping them back up to a decent TP level.
[...]

If You are running out of MP as a healer in DF, You are a bad healer.

If You are not passing DPS checks in DF, Your teams DPS sucks.

If You are dying (thus needing TP or MP Song), you suck at dodging.

So, what you two are saying is that "if sh*t happens, it means that the others are bad. Therefore, I'm allowed to be bad as well and not support them"?
That's not how a group works.

Scarebearz, you just said that you had a WHM alt. You should now by now that the job of healers is to patch up the mistakes of others... constantly.
If anytime someone would get hit by an avoidable AoE (would it be because of a lack of attention, a lag or whatever), you would not heal that person "because he/she is bad and their mistake should not slow me down"?

That's the most selfish and counter-productive thing I can ever read about playing as a team in an MMO.

I'm done arguing with you if you can't see the whole fight as a team job and refuses to support your teammates if something goes wrong "just cuz ima DPS and other people are bad lulz".

[RiceisNice]

- If you don't pop a Foe when there are mages in your group, you're not maximising the damage output your party can do, therefore, you are failing at your role as a DPS.

There needs to be context to this. Should I be singing foe rekt at every moment of the fight? It depends on the circumstances; where there are downtimes and you're better off singing ballad to give healers a bit of mana, and to save up mana for foe rekt for phases where having a higher dps could be more helpful (to minimize the time spent in that phase)

- If you are not supporting a healer in need of MP and thus, lead to the death of a party member (or even the tank/entire group), then you're again reducing the overall damage your party can do, if someone actually dies because of that.

If a healer is running out of mana doing something, then more often not then something has gone already wrong (requiring raises, overhealing, or just poor mana management). Not to say where there are moments when none of that happens and they do need the mana, but it's so far and few inbetween.

- Same thing goes for the TP/MP songs when someone just got revived. If you let, say, a MNK/DRG with no TP to use (and Invigorate being on cooldown) after a raise, then he won't do much and the overall DPS of the party will decrease.

I think someone mentioned this before, that is on the fault of the MNK/DRG dying if they needed a raise on the first place (and thus TP). Now you have to weigh this. What's going to be more dps, a bard having no damage penalty using their AoE, or a bard sarificing 20% of their damage to increase TP regeneration for someone who just got raised with a 15% stat penalty? The healer is probably low on mana after raising that MNK/DRG; should I use ballad over paeon? If it was an Aoe intense fight like T4 and such, then yes I would use Paeon, but that is not the example you provided.

If you only care about yourself and don't want to support your party when needed in order to maximime the damage of you and your group, then you are a bad bard.
Should I have to remind you what the role of DPS is all about? Yes, killing things. If you don't use the tools you have at your disposal to allow your party to do that in a more efficient way, then you are doing it wrong.

A lot of the bullets you made seem to fault more to the other party members which funnel it to the bard, such as the healers needing mana (with very few exceptions), or the MNK/DRG needing TP after a raise. I mean all of the songs are pretty circumstantial with the exception of foe rekt, but even that needs some context to when you should play it during a lengthy boss fight to manage your mana and increase dps when its really needed.

It doesn't matter... i could say the same thing as a healer and not heal outside of tank and unavoidable damage because you should avoid everything else, but I don't, because it's a disservice to the party and isono help to anybody. Someone being bad doesn't make you good: if a whm needs a song and you don't sing it because he sucks at managing MP, you're just as bad.
You're playing in a party, act like it. Your high dps is useless if the rest of the party is incapacitated by your lack of singing. It's not that hard of a concept to understand.

I have yet to have an instance where people in my party dies because I wasn't singing. It could have been a contributor (such as the healer running out of mana), but that also stems from other problems (like them having to spend mana on raise in the first place).

A bard not singing is like a healer not healing and dpsing.

What is this argument about skilled bards vs non skilled other dps got to do with it? That's kinda obvious that a bad player is worse than a good one oO.

This is about it really. If you're not going above and beyond your role, you're nothing special (good or bad). If you try to do that but fail at it (letting the tank die in the healer's case, or playing the wrong song at the run time), the party suffers from it and you're probably better off just sticking to the ground.