WHY ARE YOU PLAYING A BARD IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SING?!

[Aegis]

bard 1v1 dps is toned down a lot compared to other dps classes. They MUST sing to make up for this, or they are just a waste of space, in all honesty.

They have some of the best single target DPS over short periods if they conserve their buffs and use them all at once. This can be significant on burn phases but it would obviously lower DPS on non-burn phases.

[ExiaQuanta]

I will play songs for people. However only if I deemed it necessary. For example, if the party HAS BLM, Ill play foes. If we are AoEing. Ill play paeon because i know if im running low on TP for AoEing the others are probably near depletion (I am also going to assume alot MNK/DRG have Invigorate late game). If i see that the healers are running low on MP due to healing (maybe over healing). Ill play a Ballad. Now if see a healer low mp due to DPSing. I may or may not play a song. All depends on how well it can heal the tank while dpsing. but if the tank is like dieing and almost every pull near death. No.

I also agree that while when you talk about straight numbers and perfect situations. Hands down Bard is last for DPS. However in a real situation (non-coil), in my personal Experience, I out DMG alot of people.

And if your gonna say "if your doing more deeps than the party than your a bad bard". Why would i play a TP song for MNK/DRG when most fights don't even require you to use all of your TP? I dont mind playing a foes because it doesnt reduce my DMG. Healers almost never run out of MP in dungeons. At the end of the dungeon they still have 90% of it left if they are just healing (Some still retain 70% even if they threw in a few DPS moves).

[RiceisNice]

Except for foe rekt, the presence of songs (or just bards in general really) seems...absent. Hell, one of the skills they get form their quest is Rain of Death.

To me, what separates a bad bard, to a meh bard, to a good bard, is how they manage their songs.

>The bads would be the specials, the one that keep using straight shot (in place of heavy), only one of the DoTs ("windbite is better"), or singing the wrong songs at the wrong time (keeping ballad/paeon at all times). Bonus points if they're a combination of all three, and throw out the "I play how I want" to justify it. Sorry, you're in the same party as me, it's my business and I'm gonna nit pick. You'd probably give a heads up to the tank or healer if they're under-performing at their role, why is DPS an exception?

>The Good bards are the ones that know how to manage their songs, especially if I get a dual bard party with a WHM healer, we'd both rotate foe rekt for holy bombs. Have a BLM or SMN? Manage foe rekt so that it's up on trash while not pulling, disable when they're within kill zone, recover mana, be ready for boss. Those are the ones that get a commend from me. I've only seen two other bards who perform above and beyond a typical dps role.

That being said though, bard is still a dps class, their main priority is damage, not support. As a BRD main, I don't feel that my damage is stellar behind the other classes (with some exceptions, a monk was hazing on me because he was out dpsing me in SV, a lvl 43 sync'd dungeon... among other functional issues if he was using a parser) Without songs but still pulling the damage, they're nothing special (good or bad). Though I do try to point out using foe rekt if theres a blm or healer dpsing, and it'd be up to them to take it into consideration.

[scarebearz]

Well, if you're just talking about doing more damage than a random pub MNK in Sastasha during your low roulette, then yeah, you get a point.
But you're still a bad bard.

Such clueless replies xD

Go DF some primals, keep an eye on what the DPS classes are doing and you'll soon see what I mean ^_-

As for me personally being a "Bad bard", well I'm a BLM with alt WHM, I do have an i90ish Bard and I've never claimed to be good on it. But that said I can still out dps a lot of better geared DF Bards, as most (I expect including many posting here) are useless, regardless of if they Sing or not.

[Fyce]

Such clueless replies xD

Go DF some primals, keep an eye on what the DPS classes are doing and you'll soon see what I mean ^_-

As for me personally being a "Bad bard", well I'm a BLM with alt WHM, I do have an i90ish Bard and I've never claimed to be good on it. But that said I can still out dps a lot of better geared DF Bards, as most (I expect including many posting here) are useless, regardless of if they Sing or not.

- If you don't pop a Foe when there are mages in your group, you're not maximising the damage output your party can do, therefore, you are failing at your role as a DPS.
- If you are not supporting a healer in need of MP and thus, lead to the death of a party member (or even the tank/entire group), then you're again reducing the overall damage your party can do, if someone actually dies because of that.
- Same thing goes for the TP/MP songs when someone just got revived. If you let, say, a MNK/DRG with no TP to use (and Invigorate being on cooldown) after a raise, then he won't do much and the overall DPS of the party will decrease.

If you only care about yourself and don't want to support your party when needed in order to maximime the damage of you and your group, then you are a bad bard.
Should I have to remind you what the role of DPS is all about? Yes, killing things. If you don't use the tools you have at your disposal to allow your party to do that in a more efficient way, then you are doing it wrong.

Edit: I don't really care what class you're playing. I'm saying "you" as a bard, no matter if you are playing it or not. It's just a general statement.

[Aegis]

- Same thing goes for the TP/MP songs when someone just got revived. If you let, say, a MNK/DRG with no TP to use (and Invigorate being on cooldown) after a raise, then he won't do much and the overall DPS of the party will decrease.

Your argument is that the BRD is the problem here? Not the dead DPS? They've cost the party the damage they've failed to contribute while on the floor, the MP and time the healer has had to raise them and protect/cure them back up, the damage lost while the Bard is unable to attack while he sings just for them and the damage penalty the Bard takes while propping them back up to a decent TP level.

There are few fights where there are no breaks in the action or no voidzones to dodge that would cause MNK/DRG to burn through their TP. There only need to be a couple of ticks rest every few minutes to keep MNK/DRG at TP-equilibrium.

And in those fights by dying the MNK/DRG have just made you lose anyway, so I woudn't worry too much.

[Felessan]

But I was responding to someone who said they don't bother with ballad because they shouldn't have to. So they would rather wipe because a healer has run out of MP to teach them a lesson than just ballad.

WHM should know how to ask nicely for Ballad. As it's not really common for a good WHM to run out of mana, even after throwing one or two raises.

When the tank grabs everything he can and I need to heal him plus knock out Holy, If the bard doesn't sing, it doesn go so well. Bard tosses up any song TP/MP songs and we do great.

If you run out of mana during Holy/Heal combo - you are doing things wrong. You either overspam Holy, or heavily overheal tank. And you should remember - unlike Foe, Ballad ain't free, it costs 20% of bards DPS and you extra Holy most often will not pay for such a loss from a good bard.
I usually don't have any problems with mana to pull out 3 holy (just up to full resistance to stun) and then heal tank rest of pull.

Seriously. The whole point of bard is to play songs. Without songs brd is just a bad dps. I mean what exactly is a bard adding to the pt without songs? I cant think of anything that another class doesnt do better.

Bard have supreme mobility and it's DPS ain't that bad. In a simulation in BRD+DRG, BRD only lack around 15 dps compared to DRG and BRD have much better mobility.

Brd is a support dps class, which means you oversee the battlefield and make decisions that allow the party to kill more efficiently. This almost always includes songs.

Only foe and only if you have casters in your group. Both paeon and ballad almost never used except some specific cases.

If 20% of my dps means everyone else does more, we are probably netting more dps as a party than if i didnt make that sacrifice. We also have higher survivability.

The problem is that usually those 20% goes to 0% of additional efficiency and just to inability to play properly for other people.

Even Im not saying that. A bard is designed to support via song. If you aren't going to support via song, you aren't doing your job.

Except for foe, bard is designed to choose - where to support or go full-out dps. As other support songs just cut out our own performance and bards should evaluate what is better - go for support song, or dps themselves.

[scarebearz]

Edit: I don't really care what class you're playing. I'm saying "you" as a bard, no matter if you are playing it or not. It's just a general statement.

Then I'll do the same:

If You are running out of MP as a healer in DF, You are a bad healer.

If You are not passing DPS checks in DF, Your teams DPS sucks.

If You are dying (thus needing TP or MP Song), you suck at dodging.


Here is a good example from the OP's post:

Me healing 8 man trial roulette. Bard sits in plumes 5 times. I raise Bard 5 times. Other healer off the edge.

Doesn't get Ballad from any of the three bards in the party.

Why on earth would You raise the same useless Bard 5 times in Titan HM, why not leave him dead and focus on saving you MP to heal those who can actually dodge? xD

[Mogi]

So you play songs when you want to but not when they are needed. That means your lazy and you can be kicked wi th vote dismiss as SE rules. As you should be. Being lazy is never a legitimate excuse.

Tell us when they are needed good sir? since lots of times ill see one healer blow there mp like there eating candy and the other will almost have full mp so oooooo ill just baby sit them and play my mp song since they have no clue how to keep up there mp pfffffffff. Yea sorry you only play songs when it's needed or when you think it's needed as
Snugglebutt has been saying. My friend is a healer and she has almost never needed any MP song {yea shes that good} but if she ever dose ill play lol in fact i play songs all the time but the op was just venting maybe we all need to vent when we run into a bad healer or lol tank blackmage smn ect?

[reality_check]

Then I'll do the same:

If You are running out of MP as a healer in DF, You are a bad healer.

^^^ doesn't understand Holy.