Hm, i115 Nexus upgrade has me worried for Third Coil.

[ispano]

Just like you're ignoring the work, and hours of tedious grind it takes to get the Relic to it's maxed out state? And what work in "learning the turns"? Theres walkthroughs for every. Single. Thing. That is released in a game, in under a week of release. And given all the fights follow the exact same sequence, every single time, with absolutely NO variation beyond who is randomly targetted by X move in certain cases, you shouldn't be failing. You're literally playing Simon Says with the game by running Coil. That certainly shouldn't be rewarded by handing out better upgrades than hours of dedicated grind and a mountain of gil.

I'm not ignoring it. It's not comparable. It's NOT comparable. It's been shown time and time again in pretty much every mmo there is. Also, going by what you're saying, Coil should be so easy that far more people should have it done than currently do. Why is that? No, really, tell me. I know some people just don't like the environment, and that's fine. But you know, Novus is far more common than HA, and I don't mean your choice of HA either. Relic is the EASIER to get weapon, period.

Cause people who beat these fights, especially the first few which myself is included, learn the fight from the ground up, not from a video. The amount of hours into just learning the fight without videos is.. frankly insane, keep in mind that at that time we weren't even remotely near being full 110, if anyone was i100.. it was a small miracle.
To those who indeed watched a video to learn the mechanics and not discover them for themselves still spend hours and hours into it, the dps check, healing checks, cooldown rotations, remembering all the phases and most importantly; not fucking up a single mechanics. This takes ages, especially with 7 other people, learning takes time, more time then to sit behind your pc hunting atmas while watching a movie.

In the meanwhile, I'll be using me four special Savage Coil titles to seperate myself from the people who wear their welfare i110 gear and their mindlessly grinded 115 weapon.

Not to mention, even if you watch a video or read a guide, doesn't mean you'll have T9 on farm a week after they do. Very few groups got T9 down within the first few weeks after World First. The amount of people who have cleared it is STILL small. (Side Note, I'm on your side of the fence)

[Shioban]

Then why did the dev team originally make Relics the equal to the raid gear? Why is raid armor and purchased armor the same tier but weapons not?

In terms of gear, due to the loot system if let's say vendor gear was i50, yet raid gear was i55. You'd be waiting on the mercy of RNG drops for gear to help you progress.

For this reason, mix-matching Myth & Coil gear became a thing.

Lack of foresight in terms of the weapons led Zenith weapons being practically on-par with Allagan Weapons which devalued them, which ruined the incentive to actually do it in the first place.

To gain a relic now, a proper relic, requires the original relic quest, plus the interminable Atma grind, then the grind of the books atop that, and finally, the incrediably expensive, and long, Alexandrite grind and materia fusion process. All of which takes far more work and dedication than watching a video on youtube and monkey-see monkey-doing your way through Dance Dance Dungeon.

It's not difficult, it's just time consuming and expensive in terms of gil, or time spend spiritbonding.

THAT IS NOT difficulty, that is TIME consuming.

It's far more difficult than just doing Coil. It should be at the very least equal, if not exceeding, because it requires more dedication.

Please attempt Turn 9, and let me know if it's a "I watched a youtube video, now I can beat it" fight.

[Numenor1379]

Please, no really, try again. Just because that one person got carried, doesn't mean the other 7 didn't have to progress and learn the content. They put actual work in getting to where they are. You are missing that aspect of it.

No I really am not. My static is currently working on T7 (should have it cleared within a couple days) and we are all looking forward to learning T8 next. However I doubt any of them would think that getting the HA weapon eventually is harder than finishing the Relic Questline. Once you've got the Turns on farm it's a mindless hour you spend each week to clear the turns and get your drops. Good for those people who've progressed that far, lots of props to them and I hope to be one of them some day.

But the fact is, it takes a LOT more work in terms of resources, time, patience, and more than a little RNG to get the Relic finished. They are different ways to the same end point.

[VicViperion]

who cares? just wait 3 months after 2.4 and you can get max ilvl for derp style grinds.



It's pointless to argue with people on this forum. Only a small fraction of them actually raid and they don't get it. You can see from the "15 min" run statements are just proof positive that most players here don't get what progression is.

No, I completely "get" what it is. I've done it myself. You just don't seem to understand there isn't much to it. You learn the mechanics (or go on youtube, like 90% of the player base). And then...Thats it. Congrats. If you can perform the simple task of memorization, you'll win. There's nothing to it beyond that other than not trying to waltz in there undergeared. You're trumping it up as something far greater than it is.

[Crimson-Falcon]

I'm not saying that they do, only that it IS done. So again, how is beating ONE single boss (the fight which can be completed in 10min or less) any more difficult than spending hundreds of hours doing the Relic Quest chain? Time spent on the Relic quest far dwarfs learning T9, it's time for the weapons to reflect that. Thankfully it appears the Relic weapons are starting to be equalized to the raid drops.

beat T6 - T9 in your 1st attempt then come talk

hell you are talking about hardest content in the game

i can get the novus in my sleep

while coil require every bit of my attention

[ispano]

No, I completely "get" what it is. I've done it myself. You just don't seem to understand there isn't much to it. You learn the mechanics (or go on youtube, like 90% of the player base). And then...Thats it. Congrats. If you can perform the simple task of memorization, you'll win. There's nothing to it beyond that other than not trying to waltz in there undergeared. You're trumping it up as something far greater than it is.

Then why have so few beaten it? No, really, why?

[cryptic_angel]

I'm not saying that they do, only that it IS done. So again, how is beating ONE single boss (the fight which can be completed in 10min or less) any more difficult than spending hundreds of hours doing the Relic Quest chain? Time spent on the Relic quest far dwarfs learning T9, it's time for the weapons to reflect that. Thankfully it appears the Relic weapons are starting to be equalized to the raid drops.

I spent more time in SCoB than working on a novus. You really don't understand.

No, I completely "get" what it is. I've done it myself. You just don't seem to understand there isn't much to it. You learn the mechanics (or go on youtube, like 90% of the player base). And then...Thats it. Congrats. If you can perform the simple task of memorization, you'll win. There's nothing to it beyond that other than not trying to waltz in there undergeared. You're trumping it up as something far greater than it is.

You get it, then why don't you want to reward raiders for their effort? SE is driving the raiding community from this game. Do you really want this game just to be a vanity fest hello kitty island adventure styled mmo?

[hallena]

In terms of gear, due to the loot system if let's say vendor gear was i50, yet raid gear was i55. You'd be waiting on the mercy of RNG drops for gear to help you progress.

For this reason, mix-matching Myth & Coil gear became a thing..

Myth/coil mixing became a thing because some of the coil gear wasn't itemized well enough to cap accuracy and/or max dps. Myth/Coil armors in 2.0 were literally as powerful. you needed to mix them to reach the maximum numbers no matter what

[VicViperion]

I spent more time in SCoB than working on a novus. You really don't understand.

You get it, then why don't you want to reward raiders for their effort? SE is driving the raiding community from this game.

If you spent more time on Coil than on Novus, then I'm sorry for you. As for rewarded for the effort? What effort? Again, it's rote memorization. Thats what "Farm" status is. And actually, driving the "hardcore" raiding community wouldn't impact anything, because that part of the community for any MMO is the tiniest possible portion.

But thats besides the point. Raids already are rewarding enough: You do your song and dance routine, you get more gear than people just going through the usual weekly grind. Thats your reward. You gear up twice (okay, not twice, because RNG) as fast as other people, OR you get better gear on a secondary class while gearing up a main with your weekly grind gear.

[cryptic_angel]

If you spent more time on Coil than on Novus, then I'm sorry for you. As for rewarded for the effort? What effort? Again, it's rote memorization. Thats what "Farm" status is. And actually, driving the "hardcore"raiding community wouldn't impact anything, because that part of the community for any MMO is the tiniest possible portion.

But thats besides the point. Raids already are rewarding enough: You do your song and dance routine, you get more gear than people just going through the usual weekly grind. Thats your reward. You gear up twice (okay, not twice, because RNG) as fast as other people, OR you get better gear on a secondary class while gearing up a main with your weekly grind gear.

I spent more time in SCoB because our group does not watch videos mainly because we push bleeding edge progression. We kept pace with most world class statics until turn9. There were no strategy videos to watch for t6, t7, and t8. This memorization is not applicable to everyone further showing you really don't get the situation as well as you think you do.

Also, you might have a fight perfectly memorized, but that does not mean the other seven people do. You really don't seem to get it.

People with hunts gear up way faster than raiders do, so that's also a moot point. I saw players jump in 10+ ilvls the week hunts came out. You know how long it takes to get 10+ ilvls just from raiding? Months, it takes months. Also, why do I need to worry about alt gear when I can get easy ilvl 110 alt gear from hunts.

There are no real substantial raid rewards.