Please Do NOT Introduce Another Melee Tank

[Alkimi]

They will never do a full on ranged tank because it would take DRG/MNK out of the fight.

Why? Ranged weapons still work at close range.

[warren-ragnarok]

swtor has a ranged tank in the bounty hunter/trooper and actually works damn well. A ranged tank in this game isn't that far off base imho

It isnt even really a ranged tank to be honest, its just a tank with ranged abilities....reality is, you're still standing next to the boss in the end

[reivaxe]

If whoever pulls aggro from you, you don't do your job well enough. And that doesn't change the fact that almost all mobs will come at close range very fast, it'd ask much effort to design a specific "long-ranged" job who would ultimately fight at close-range.

The bolded is just plain non-sense. Saying that there's things a class/ job can't very effectively do because of lack of skills and/or the cool down settings does NOT mean that a job isn't effective nor does it mean you're not "playing it right/ well".


For example, lets step back and take away WAR. Make PLD the only tank class. It's well know IFAIK that WAR is better at grabbing and keeping aggro on groups of mobs. Say someone proposes a classes that's better at keeping aggro on groups of mobs ... you're basically saying "if you're losing hate on extra mobs as a PLD you're not playing the class well enough. You have Flash and CoS as AOE hate generating skills. And anyways, ultimately, it's gonna come down to holding aggro on a single mob anyway" which means nothing because the person is proposing a class that's better at that than PLD, not that they're saying PLD simply CAN'T do it under any circumstances.

And what makes a tank is also how he sustains damage throughout fights. What would be the survival mechanic of your tank ?

Not a game designer nor am I well learned in the skills of balancing classes so anything I say will likely just be overpowered. So I'm just gonna say "the class/ job would have the ability to tank damage on par with the other 2 but would have the skills to take and hold aggro on distanced mobs using far reaching AoE and single target attacks. Would pump out less damage than a WAR but would apply dots and slows/ stuns".

[Reynhart]

For example, lets step back and take away WAR. Make PLD the only tank class. It's well know IFAIK that WAR is better at grabbing and keeping aggro on groups of mobs. Say someone proposes a classes that's better at keeping aggro on groups of mobs ... you're basically saying "if you're losing hate on extra mobs as a PLD you're not playing the class well enough. You have Flash and CoS as AOE hate generating skills. And anyways, ultimately, it's gonna come down to holding aggro on a single mob anyway" which means nothing because the person is proposing a class that's better at that than PLD, not that they're saying PLD simply CAN'T do it under any circumstances.

The problem is that your idea of a tank is based on something that PLD and WAR can already do well, even if WAR can do it better. If this new tank gains enmity on par with WAR and PLD, a situation where a mob runs to someone else will occur the same for WAR and PLD, and, in most cases, they already manage to get enmity back.

Gaining enmity is a very basic concept for a tank. That's why, in my opinion, designing a tank is more "How will it survive ?" than "How will it hold aggro ?"

Not a game designer nor am I well learned in the skills of balancing classes so anything I say will likely just be overpowered. So I'm just gonna say "the class/ job would have the ability to tank damage on par with the other 2 but would have the skills to take and hold aggro on distanced mobs using far reaching AoE and single target attacks. Would pump out less damage than a WAR but would apply dots and slows/ stuns".

You don't need to be a game designer to have an idea for a basic concept. I don't ask for specific numbers, so it's far too early to say that something is "overpowered". "Take damage on par with the other 2" is not very precise. Basic damage mitigation like PLD ? Self-healing and short-term damage mitigation like WAR ?

[Kaonis]

swtor has a ranged tank in the bounty hunter/trooper and actually works damn well. A ranged tank in this game isn't that far off base imho

Ah yes, "Ranged tank". I played one of these "ranged tanks" it's a bit of a misnomer as all your good skills (i.e. important tanking ones) are only usable within melee range, and on top of that most enemies meleed you anyways so you were always getting beat on. That game really abused the word ranged when describing it's tanks.

[Giantbane]

The only real way to have a "ranged" tank is to have a job where the pet is the tank and the player himself was not very strong at all. I kind of doubt this will happen, but it would be interesting.

[Reynhart]

The only real way to have a "ranged" tank is to have a job where the pet is the tank and the player himself was not very strong at all. I kind of doubt this will happen, but it would be interesting.

That's a pet tank, and it indeed could be interesting.
I haven't played SMN on endgame, but I doubt that Titan can hold aggro over strong DPS and on multiple targets.

[SpookyGhost]

That's a pet tank, and it indeed could be interesting.
I haven't played SMN on endgame, but I doubt that Titan can hold aggro over strong DPS and on multiple targets.

Multiple targets, not sure (can't recall if Titan has strong AOE aggro moves) but single target:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5MdZW1Ennw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEAdur1izsQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_oLCPHqKR8

[Duelle]

Ah yes, "Ranged tank". I played one of these "ranged tanks" it's a bit of a misnomer as all your good skills (i.e. important tanking ones) are only usable within melee range, and on top of that most enemies meleed you anyways so you were always getting beat on. That game really abused the word ranged when describing it's tanks.

Well, you did have mobs that were inherently ranged, and because of SWTOR's setting guys and droids with blasters were more common compared to ranged mobs in other settings. I was a jedi guardian, and it felt odd having guys shooting at me from point blank range after I Force Leap'ed at them.

[Shurrikhan]

To "tank" melee enemies at a range, you must either have a way to near-permanently bind or heavy their movement enough for melee to comfortably use positionals against them (in which case you're still more a "kiter" than "tank"), or else have something that is acting in a 'melee' relation to the enemy, even if the player in tank role is distant. Theoretically I can see Puppetmaster, Beastmaster, Ninja, or some manner of Necromancer 'being able' to pull that off, but whether one would actually call them a ranged tank is left up to trifle debate.

There's all still plenty to be done with alternate tanking styles within melee itself, and I don't really see how pet-master swaps (swap in a spirit-beast, who was debuffing something else, to take a large magic hit for you while you melee-heavy its previous target), extended high-threat kiting, etc., is necessarily going to be a more varied or interesting change from current Warrior-Paladin tank styles than those, though I would be happy with any of those (though less so with the kiting as a 'niche' of tank alone, without internal mechanics).