Please reconsider phase changes that heavily disadvantage players

[Viridiana]

You're not getting punished for high dps, you're getting punished for not having control over the fight.

Would be more believable if "control the fight" didn't translate directly into "artificially limit your dps."

[Dwill]

Would be more believable if "control the fight" didn't translate directly into "artificially limit your dps."

He's not wrong. Fights are not all about maintaining the maximum amount of DPS your class can dish out from start to finish. Raiding is about controlling the encounter via various mechanics and if one of those mechanic requires you to tone down your DPS, then that's what you do. Fight mechanics are not meant to be advantageous to everyone nor be something people even like. Heck, if people would have their way, we'd have mostly Patchwerk-esque encounters.

[BloodPact]

He's not wrong. Fights are not all about maintaining the maximum amount of DPS your class can dish out from start to finish. Raiding is about controlling the encounter via various mechanics and if one of those mechanic requires you to tone down your DPS, then that's what you do. Fight mechanics are not meant to be advantageous to everyone nor be something people even like. Heck, if people would have their way, we'd have mostly Patchwerk-esque encounters.

^ Exactly what the person I quoted said.

Have you seen the videos of the full party of Black Mages burning Moogle (Hard) in about 2 minutes (and it lasted that long because of how the first phase work, if not that instance would have lasted 15 seconds.) These "annoying" checkpoints will ensure that no matter your ilvl, you respect the design of the encounter and learn the fight instead of pushing through it with an overgeared character.

[Edli]

Would be more believable if "control the fight" didn't translate directly into "artificially limit your dps."

That's what controlling the fight means. It means to not tunnel vision and not caring only about your rotation. Yes DPS has to control their dmg output in the same way a healer has to control healing as to not overheal and take aggro. A DPS has to control it when he joins a dungeon way overgeared with an undergeared tank too. DPS control is as necessary of a tactic as is aggro and healing control.

Why did you ignore my second part of the post btw? On that exact fight you can DPS so hard as to not even see the second bee. So that fight doesn't punish high dps exclusively, it punishes wrong time to change phases that's all. High DPS can result in either a punishment or reward.

A fight is not only about DPSing as hard as you can till boss dies, is about winning the fight and going about it in the safest and more efficient route that you can manage.

[Viridiana]

Why did you ignore my second part of the post btw? On that exact fight you can DPS so hard as to not even see the second bee. So that fight doesn't punish high dps exclusively, it punishes wrong time to change phases that's all. High DPS can result in either a punishment or reward.

It's not that I intended to ignore the second part, it's that the second part is where the math goes from being sour to being good again. Most groups don't have the option to push that hard. The dps levels look about like this, with 1 being highest:

1) Can skip the second bee
2) No skipping or borderline skipping, accidental wipes.
3) Intentionally hold just enough to not wipe.
4) Moderate dps, no need to hold because it aligns right.
5) Wipe to enrage.

The problem is that 4) arguably has it easier than 3), which is counter-intuitive. The other problem is if the group shoots for 1) and hits 2) instead. Can you tell the difference without parsing between 2) and 1)? Can you know before the fight starts if it will be 4) or if you need to plan for 3)?

I get needing to save cooldowns; I get needing to choose targets to burst; I get having to watch aggro; I don't understand why any part of the fight should require people to stand around doing nothing in order to not wipe. . .

[Psykotsu]

I don't understand why any part of the fight should require people to stand around doing nothing in order to not wipe. . .

Blighted Bouquet says hey.

[Viridiana]

Blighted Bouquet says hey.

You missed my giant post earlier where I said Blighted was kinda the exception.

[Alukah]

I get needing to save cooldowns; I get needing to choose targets to burst; I get having to watch aggro; I don't understand why any part of the fight should require people to stand around doing nothing in order to not wipe. . .

You're wasting your time here, some of these people are used to XI's trash combat system, where tanks had no proper tanking tools and people had to sit around to not get aggro.

[Magis]

Yes, you are being punished for not playing your job right. Damage management is part of the job, knowing how to efficiently deliver max damage, but not so much that you overtake the tank in threat (4mans and the Death Dancers in T7 come to mind) or cause a phase change at the wrong time (T6, T7). This has been the basic definition in MMOs since the beginning, including WoW. I guess this is the complainers first MMO?

You're wasting your time here, some of these people are used to XI's trash combat system, where tanks had no proper tanking tools and people had to sit around to not get aggro.

Wut. Ok, you do know that was a thing in WoW too before Blizz made it impossible to take aggro off a tank cause "threat management" was toooooo haaaaaard, right? Case in point: Onyxia (the 40 man). During phase 2 she flew around so only range DPS could attack her. This caused the tank to lose threat and DPS to overtake, so when she landed in phase 3, players had to slow down or stop dps in general so the tank could retake aggro.

In BWL, Vaelastrasz's whole strategy was a balancing act between threat management and DPS. Players on the top of the hate list (besides tanks) would get "Burning Adrenalin" which gave them instant cast on all abilities as well as a damage buff, easily out aggroing the tank. They could go balls out, but then cause the boss to aggro them and wipe the raid. So they had to watch threat to make sure they didn't over aggro.

But I guess that game too had a "trashy system", right?

[Fendred]

My personal opinion is that this entire problem (which is a recurring theme going back to 2.0), is because they decided to replace the party responsibilities that damage dealers and controllers usually have with an increased complexity to their rotations and positioning. It forces the damage dealers to pay more attention to their action bars and footing than to the actual battlefield, which is in stark contrast to when aggro management, crowd control, and situational abilities are emphasized.

That can seem like an odd thing to say, since wouldn't paying attention to your position be paying attention to the battlefield? But in practice, paying attention to the battlefield means keeping track of a lot of different things outside a given player. I'm equally skilled at playing scholar, paladin, warrior, and monk, but the monk gives me noticeably more trouble than the other three when it comes to doing Rafflasia.

In short, don't put all the blame on the damage dealers when the system emphasizes complicating their basic function in place of strategy. It's not that they're impossible to play as the currently are, but when difficulty requires tight coordination it shows.