Tales from the Calamity Lore Discussion

[Anonymoose]

Since both Rosensthal and Sthalmann exist in cutscenes in the same time period,

Ahh, but do they? Try watching the Lominsan quests again, but every time your hear a sound like whoosh, imagine that you've just entered or exited an Echo of 1562 because you've triggered a memory in who you're talking to. See if things start suddenly making a lot of sense. (Big Hint: Whenever Sthalmann is around, the Admiral is a man.)

[Saikou]

Currently working hard to get the annotated Tales finished before the next one comes out, but popping in to say that I did manage to read the translations of the other languages. Indeed, English is unique in Louisoix saying "If I don't return" rather than "I will not be returning." The English version conveys Louisoix's gentle personality, actually leaving out his admission and simply saying he told Minfilia "the rest." The German translation articulates the concise Japanese most clearly without omitting the blunt truth.

Das Ritual ähnelte einer Primae-Beschwörung und barg die Gefahr, alle Bewohner Eorzeas in von den Zwölf Besessene zu verwandeln.
The ritual resembled a primal summong and had the potential to turn every resident of Eorzea into Twelve's tempered servants.

Er würde die Kraft der Götter kanalisieren müssen, ohne ihnen Gelegenheit zu geben, sich körperlich zu manifestieren.
He would have to channel the power of the gods, but without giving them the opportunity to manifest physically.

Dazu gab es nur einen Weg: die Eliminierung des Mediums, kurz bevor dies geschah.
There was only one way: the elimination of the medium, just before this happened.

We've known for a while that Louisoix's plan failed because the Twelve's strength alone was not enough to overcome Bahamut's power, but we didn't know that even if Dalamud was a simply moon, even if Bahamut did not appear, even if the Twelve's power were enough to raise Dalamud, Louisoix still intended to die. The plan was that, after the Twelve's power was invoked, but before they could physically manifest, he would take his own life to interrupt the ritual. He never got far enough into the summoning for us to see that part, however, because Bahamut interrupted the ritual well beforehand and he decided to fall back on something else...

Makes you wonder, though... when he sends the Warriors of Light away, you see the same type of circular glyph that appears around the wrists of summoners around his own, and within it is the symbol of Althyk. Were Bahamut's disappearance and all this memory loss a result of Althyk's power, as well? Was this invocation interrupted, or did Althyk manifest somewhere? Or is it all related to something else?

Granted, English would have him lying benevolently about the possibility of his return. The whole thing where Lou doesn't spell out in exquisite detail what is going to happen at the summoning... Well, it's just that. Even using "Gaius language," the implication is that The 12 are capable of doing everything that we know primals are able to do. As the expanded explicit explanation details, their summoning is so similar to that of Primals as to be indistinguishable. And if a full summoning would have been done, that would have been 12 Primals manifest on Eorzea simultaneously at the same location. Probably that would have desolated, if not the realm, certainly Carteneau. I find the idea of Althyk having been manifest and potentially still manifest somewhere on Hydaelyn to be an interesting conjecture.

And to go on a complete tangent, the official wording of Althyk's description has always bugged me: "Althyk is the surveyor of change and space and god of time." Too many "ands." It seems more likely that the intended meaning is "Althyk is the god of space and time and the surveyor of change." You might also say "Althyk is the god of space, time, and of surveying change." As someone who occasionally does writing and editing work, the wording in some of these descriptions - Althyk, here, in particular - offends my sense of grammatical style as taught to me by my teachers and nurtured by my own hard work. I acknowledge that I hold no degree in any writing disciplines and don't do any such work full time, so it's entirely possible that the whole thing is grammatically sound, stylistically sound, makes sense, and I'm the only one whose troubled and confused.

Getting back to the matter at hand... I am hopeful that as we learn the deeper mysteries of Primals and Ascians, we will also learn more about the true nature of Eorzea's Gods and their symbols. We are certain that the symbols of Eorzea's Gods date back to at least the Allagan Empire. The 12 walking among mortals in the first astral era could very much be an error of recorded history. A Song of Ice and Fire goes out of its way in more recent volumes to state that history and prophecies can be influenced by who recorded them and also by playing "translation telephone." Yoshida has indicated that Primals will begin to be less chaotic, selfish, and destruction focused as Ifrit, Garuda, and Leviathan and more thoughtful and purpose driven as Titan and Ramuh were. I hope that's right and am curious to see what motivates Shiva. Would be even more interested to see what the agenda of a manifest member of Eorzea's pantheon would be.

[Brine_Gildchaff]

The plan was that, after the Twelve's power was invoked, but before they could physically manifest, he would take his own life to interrupt the ritual. He never got far enough into the summoning for us to see that part, however, because Bahamut interrupted the ritual well beforehand and he decided to fall back on something else...

... I wonder if Gaius knew all this, and that's why he taunts us that way on the elevator to the Ultima Weapon's cradle. One thing is for sure, it now makes perfect sense why we DON'T do as he mockingly suggested.

Makes you wonder, though... when he sends the Warriors of Light away, you see the same type of circular glyph that appears around the wrists of summoners around his own, and within it is the symbol of Althyk. Were Bahamut's disappearance and all this memory loss a result of Althyk's power, as well? Was this invocation interrupted, or did Althyk manifest somewhere? Or is it all related to something else?

Althyk's domain is time. Could he simple have invoked the remnants of Althyk's dissipating power to transplant the Warriors of Light (and perhaps Bahamut too?) to a later, safer time period? But it still makes no sense that Bahamut now lies beneath Carteneaux, restrained by his Neuro-links and the three (or perhaps four?) Ragnarok interrment hulks. Isn't he visibly free of all of those things during the End of an Era cutscene?

[Anonymoose]

Probably that would have desolated, if not the realm

Yeah, it was stated as the ritual was prepared that fully summoning twelve deities would probably reduce the realm to a lifeless husk.

the official wording of Althyk's description has always bugged me

I hold no more of a linguistically-related degree than you do, so take this with a grain of salt, but I feel that the issue is a lack of agreement between the two intended blocks. Althyk is [the surveyor of change and space] and [god of time]. Without a second "the" to create agreement, the third "and" disrupts the intended two-block perception and creates the confusing illusion of three sections. Saying "Althyk is [the surveyor of change and space] and [the god of time]" would be - maybe not more clear - but more grammatically correct. I would have used an interrupter, myself, but I do so love my interrupters: "Althyk, god of time, is the surveyor of change and space."

I wonder if Gaius knew all this

He knew enough, though probably not as much as people might give him credit for. As far as I can tell, his specific observation, "Why do you not respond in kind?" about summoning the Twelve to face the primals was less about showing us how much he knew, and more of a rhetorical question meant to link "Why do you place your faith in false gods?" to "Because you are weak, and that's why I will win." He doesn't really know all that much. I mean, he allied with the freakin' Ascians; how well-informed about the true nature of our reality could he be? For all he knows, our leaders are weak and the Twelve are real. Granted you probably still shouldn't summon them lest they omnomnom the vital essence of our reality, but still.

SE's kept this whole The Twelve thing up for far too long for the truth to be entirely atheistic, methinks. As much sense as I can make out of theories that the Twelve aren't actually deities, I can't shake the feeling that there's something there. "Eorzea - a land embraced by mighty gods" was literally the first thing in the reveal, the first thing in every promotion, and a huge part of the PR. How cheap would it be for all that to be bullshit? (And that's coming from the guy who came up with the theory that the Twelve were just a bunch of leftover augmented Allagans like Phlegethon that wowed the crap out of recent migrants to the realm and inspired a religion. I just like putting on the darksteelfoil hat and musing, sometimes.)

Althyk's domain is time. Could he simple have invoked the remnants of Althyk's dissipating power to transplant the Warriors of Light (and perhaps Bahamut too?) to a later, safer time period?

Althyk could definitely swing our teleportation into spacetime limbo, and I think we're meant to assume that he did. After that, though, Louisoix just gives up as Bahamut charges a massive attack and looks away, smiling as he embraces death. Something unrelated to his spell may have come into play at that moment. As I said earlier in the thread, my original guess was that Dalamud was so well-engineered that, even in shattered pieces, it attempted to initiate repairs and reintegrate, causing Bahamut to be torn asunder when the fallen internment hulks embedded in the ground re-linked. Or maybe Althyk's magicks were still working and the bright light was the god's power binding Bahamut and annihilating Louisoix, interrupting both of their spells before the flare could go off or Althyk could manifest, thus hitting the pause button on the Calamity to let the realm heal enough to survive until we could clean house. Whatever happened, it's meant to be a mystery revealed at the end of the third coil, so I've stopped trying to figure it out.

[myahele]

I wonder if they were sealed off by the warring tribes of old? After which the 1st Astral era/age of Man came to be.

Could it be possible that the 12 created/control man (the playable races and beyond) and used them to fight each other. Something happens, rebellion ensues and they got themselves sealed. Now untempered man was free and the lands aether no longer drained by the 12. Thus ushering the 1st astral era.

[FJerome]

Shocking reveal - the twins have parents.

Dear Fourchenault Leveilleur, please come and collect your children before Alphinaud decides we're too stupid to make our own decisions and makes himself God-Emperor.

[ruskie]

Dear Fourchenault Leveilleur, please come and collect your children before Alphinaud decides we're too stupid to make our own decisions and makes himself God-Emperor.

I must say like all the others it's a great personal story. I hope there will be more such stories in the future. Either outside of the game or in game.

[FJerome]

I must say like all the others it's a great personal story. I hope there will be more such stories in the future. Either outside of the game or in game.

It's probably my favourite so far, probably because of all entirely new (to my knowlege) information about Sharlayan. It's good character insight into the twins, too.

ETA: I'd rather we'd get most of our lore in-game, though, if only because it's easier for new people to come across it that way. For example, if you only started playing with ARR it's pretty easy right now to never find out about the old 1.0 newspaper articles.

[ruskie]

I think for my part I'd say my favorite is the Elder seedseers. But they all brought a tear or two to my eyes - really want more strong emotional things in this game(I loved the events after story titan - still my favorite part of it - story went so well from that point - I want to see more of such).

[Icecylee]

Shocking reveal - the twins have parents.

Dear Fourchenault Leveilleur, please come and collect your children before Alphinaud decides we're too stupid to make our own decisions and makes himself God-Emperor.

You say that like we aren't too stupid to make our own decisions. ?_? Man though, I don't think anyone called the twins being the last entry, haha.

Reading through all of these has been really nice. Especially being able to get better insight into how the characters think, and some of their less obvious relationships with one another. Good job to all the people that worked on these! And here's hoping that more of this sort of characterization comes through in the game itself.