What's with the Early Pull Brigade?

[ispano]

No, I believe they are correct in saying your reading comprehension is poor. I read that whole thread when it was happening.

If you pull before the zerg group gets there, you've done nothing wrong. If you AGREE to wait and then pull early, that's something else. And punishment, if any, would come from breaking the agreement, not for pulling.

That's why he said what he did about hypothetical situations.

[NyarukoW]

No, I believe they are correct in saying your reading comprehension is poor. I read that whole thread when it was happening.
...

You just read what you like to believe. Echo chamber syndrome and ignore the rest.

Detrimental can be objectively determined if there is enough data to mined. The troll that early pulls disrupting every can be spotted objectively, based on player position and time data and seals awarded. Not sure if the GMs can do such data mining, but the if the evidence and truth is out there. So that is why they couch their language with things like " Every situation is unique, and only through a GM investigation can the full situation be reviewed and a final determination be made."

But obvious trolls are obvious. Trolls that early pull and didn't get their way can easily come here and make up stories, and we can't tell if they are telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

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Hunts were designed for a small set of parties. Anyone who expects anything more than that just feels entitled to content that for the most part they do not find nor have the right to outcast others with. Mob mentality of entitlement, what a joke.

No one is being made an outcast unless they choose be a troll and become an outcast. Hunts are meant for players to come together and work together. Create websites, spreadsheets, coordinate communications etc. It is good for building a helpful community and being all inclusive. The data is provide and shared for everyone's benefit. It is not mob mentality, it is people working with a consensus and being helpful to one another, something that the early pulling trolls work to destroy.

[ispano]

Here's the thing you're missing though. A group of say, 4 pulling an A rank to kill it before the zerg shows up. Now, tell me how you know of their intent to disrupt? As opposed as intent to you know, kill the mob to get seals? Please tell me. Whereas resetting a hunt mark, which is what that thread about, outside of very specific situations is clearly intentional.

Hunts are meant for smaller groups than currently do them, you don't have to like or agree to that, but they are. It's the zergs that are outcasting these people and calling them trolls most of the time, nothing more.

People never think about this or choose to ignore it. When you WILLINGLY use something in a way it wasn't intended to be use, and then try to effectively FORCE other people to play that way, does not make you right. Large group or not.

So, sorry, a group pulling a mark before the zerg gets there, because they feel they can kill it and want a better chance at full credit, are doing nothing wrong. Period.

EDIT: Going to lay it out nice and clearly here.

You reset a mark because you want to help people who aren't there yet. You're being disruptive to those who are already there.

You pull a mark because your group is there and ready. You're NOT being disruptive to those who are not there. Because they are simply not there. The system was designed with competition in mind.

[NyarukoW]

So, sorry, a group pulling a mark before the zerg gets there, because they feel they can kill it and want a better chance at full credit, are doing nothing wrong. Period.

If gotten full credit with just 3 people in a party on A ranks even full LS there. The reset will be in no way detrimental to anyone. When the data shows everyone got full credit there will be not case to be made against resets. Deliberately trolling will be witnessed by everyone else and they can all report the troll.

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So a person that accidentally pulled a mob "deserves" to be verbally abused and blacklisted en masse?

Why do you believe that cat caused the accident for the OP? Accident does happen. People will shout their apologies and life goes on. They will let it reset and the accidental puller can be raised. This too has been done. Trolls deserves to be blacklisted in masse. Being chastised is fair game. Abusive language should be reported for verbal harassment. The GMs can make the calls on those.

Oh, it absolutely is. I'm just saying there are very few actual details given, just "I was kicked at the end of the dungeon"....

And people telling lies often will give too much detail in order embelish their story. Why do you believe one OP more than the other? Cat caused accident...? Right like I was born yesterday and the dog ate the homework. So you see I don't believe the OP.

[ispano]

If gotten full credit with just 3 people in a party on A ranks even full LS there. The reset will be in no way detrimental to anyone. When the data shows everyone got full credit there will be not case to be made against resets. Deliberately trolling will be witnessed by everyone else and they can all report the troll.

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Except it's not trolling. It's called playing the game. Waiting, if you read what the GM actually said, is up to the player. They do not have to at all. You're more than welcome to blacklist those people, but reporting them does nothing but waste GM time. Outside of very specific situations of course, and there's a reason the GM didn't mention those.

[MomomiMomi]

When the data shows everyone got full credit there will be not case to be made against resets.

The intent to disrupt another customer's game play does not require that the attempt to disrupt another customer's game play was successful. This could still be reported and investigated.

Yep. You're so right.

[NyarukoW]

Yep. You're so right.

When everyone gets full credit there is no disruption. The reset is not a disruption. The GM will have to make the determination is cases that far less obvious.

Except it's not trolling. It's called playing the game.....

I don't know why you like to play devil's advocate for the trolls. Obvious trolls are obvious. It is trolling.

[MomomiMomi]

When everyone gets full credit there is no disruption.

Which is precisely why he said the attempt need not be successful.

As a player myself, I can certainly appreciate the good intentions of resetting to try to let as many people as possible get the rewards as possible. However, that being said, the reality of these intentions have been pointed out in this thread by others: by intentionally resetting a hunt mark, you have chosen to interfere with the game play of other customers.

[ispano]

I don't know why you like to play devil's advocate for the trolls. Obvious trolls are obvious. It is trolling.

Why is it trolling? You've yet to prove that. Playing the game, tagging a mob for your group to kill and not waiting for half the server, is not trolling. Preventing your group from getting credit because YOU AREN'T THERE is not disruption. Preventing a group from getting credit who ARE there, by resetting or whatnot, IS disruption.