Griefing with an emote

[Shake0615]

Agree or disagree, teabagging (or emote taunting of any sort) has been a standard of gaming behavior since games went online. For SE to take a stance against this would just be ludicrous. And how exactly are they going to police this? Are we going to see "Excessive Celebration" as a reason to kick someone?

Someone said it before: just grow thicker skin and deal with it. Good grief, I can't even believe we are having this conversation.

[YuriRamona]

Agree or disagree, teabagging (or emote taunting of any sort) has been a standard of gaming behavior since games went online. For SE to take a stance against this would just be ludicrous. And how exactly are they going to police this? Are we going to see "Excessive Celebration" as a reason to kick someone?

Someone said it before: just grow thicker skin and deal with it. Jesus Christ, I can't even believe we are having this conversation.

Let's run through the flaws of your argument.

1. It's ludicrous to take a stand against a standard that has existed since games went online.
Simply because something has existed for a long time or has remained unchanged doesn't necessarily mean that it shouldn't be changed or that it would be a bad idea to attempt to do so. I would cite some obvious real-world parallels but I assume you can come up with a few examples.

2. "Excessive Celebration" is an example of a policy that is difficult/impossible to police.
Simply because something is difficult to police doesn't mean that it shouldn't be policed at all.

For example, we can agree that there are extremes that should and should not be policed, respectively. For example, a player making a fist pump or clapping shouldn't be punished. Alternatively, a player who is delaying a game by celebrating or inciting others to celebrate should be (because we don't know if they're delaying a game to give their team more time to rest [illegal timeouts], time to huddle, time to strategize, etc)

In the real world with sports, this is actually less of an issue because there are "plays" and times in between when the ball is not in play.

In FFXIV's PvP, there is no such exception, because you are always in play and you are expected to always be participating. This means that even delaying a second or two impacts the enjoyment of the game by your team and the opposing teams.

Other examples of "difficult to police" policies: harassment and griefing. We can all agree that stalking someone (sending tells or physically stalking) or slandering someone (for example, making up a story about how you stole gil and shouting in public) are grounds for punishment. There are reasons to punish people even if the policy is vague and has a ton of gray area.

TL;DR: Just because this is a complicated topic and we can validly debate exceptions/inclusions doesn't mean that the topic should be tossed out altogether.

"Someone said it before: just think a little deeper and deal with it. Yahweh, I can't believe you even think these are valid points."

[Shake0615]

snip

Do you really think we need to put any of the dev's precious time into policing/eliminating this? Really? This is not harassment or griefing. People are literally crying to momma and daddy devs that someone hurt their feelings by doing a victory dance after they got beaten. I'm a teacher by trade and I know tattletaling when I see it. But for the sake of argument I'll take on your points.

1. Innocuous activities that MMO players participate in is not worth wasting the devs'/GM's time on regardless of how long they've been around. This includes teabagging, spamming skills in cities, crafting in walkways, and following people around and /poking them. Can these things be annoying? Yeah, but it's not worth bothering a dev/GM to correct it.

2. You're right, but it comes into a cost-benefit analysis. With all the real problems facing this game teabagging is not something worthy of any effort on the devs part to correct it. Plain and simple.

[YuriRamona]

Do you really think we need to put any of the dev's precious time into policing/eliminating this? Really? This is not harassment or griefing. People are literally crying to momma and daddy devs that someone hurt their feelings by doing a victory dance after they got beaten. I'm a teacher by trade and I know tattletaling when I see it. But for the sake of argument I'll take on your points.

1. Innocuous activities that MMO players participate in is not worth wasting the devs'/GM's time on regardless of how long they've been around. This includes teabagging, spamming skills in cities, crafting in walkways, and following people around and /poking them. Can these things be annoying? Yeah, but it's not worth bothering a dev/GM to correct it.
2. You're right, but it comes into a cost-benefit analysis. With all the real problems facing this game teabagging is not something worthy of any effort on the devs part to correct it. Plain and simple.

OK, so your argument is patently irrelevant to begin with. Any argument that makes its case along the axes of cost-benefit, value-worth are necessarily unanswerable and not resolvable. What you find to be valuable doesn't reflect the values of the playerbase as a whole. Your points will always be subjective and therefore up for debate. The same goes for the people who raised the concerns in the first place. That's why we're here, isn't it?

[Shake0615]

OK, so your argument is patently irrelevant to begin with. Any argument that makes its case along the axes of cost-benefit, value-worth are necessarily unanswerable and not resolvable. What you find to be valuable doesn't reflect the values of the playerbase as a whole. Your points will always be subjective and therefore up for debate. The same goes for the people who raised the concerns in the first place. That's why we're here, isn't it?

I'm just not going to argue with you then. You're right that both of our views are subjective and that value-worth, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. You can give me all the logic in the world to support this position. But that still doesn't change the fact that anyone who complains on official forums that someone else's "nana-nana-boo-boos" are upsetting them is literally acting like a first grader.