Could we get some "Mainstream" content?

[Ultimatecalibur]

I was reading this thread and this bit caught my attention:

The development team categorizes the players into three categories: the "Hardcore" players, the "Mainstream" players, and the "Casual" players.

From a population perspective, the causal players make up maybe about 60% of the population, the mainstream players perhaps another 30% or so (might not be exact). Now, the true hardcore players probably take up less than 10% of the population.

I know where the content is for the "Hardcore" players (Coil and EX Primals) and the "Casual" players (4 man dungeons, Crystal Tower and Hunts); so where is the content for the "Mainstream" player? You know the players who started 2.3 at i99?

[Alukah]

Based on the responses in this thread, seems like the <10% doesn't care much about the ~30% and want them to join either the ~60% or the <10%, and well considering the lack of 'mid core' content looks like SE doesn't care either, at least until 3.0.

I hope they change their content structure with the expansion.

[Xatsh]

I would call the primals midcore if you are basing it off difficulty.

[Ultimatecalibur]

I would call the primals midcore if you are basing it off difficulty.

Which Primals? The original 3 HM Primals, Ultima HM, Thornmarch HM could count when originally released, but Levi and Ramuh HM are pretty casual and calling them "Hard" is a bit of a misnomer. The EXs are most definitely Hardcore content.

[Xatsh]

Which Primals? The original 3 HM Primals, Ultima HM, Thornmarch HM could count when originally released, but Levi and Ramuh HM are pretty casual and calling them "Hard" is a bit of a misnomer. The EXs are most definitely Hardcore content.

I am referring to EXs, anything besides that are very casual in terms of difficulty.


But with exs

It takes people less then 1 day to kill them every time they are released.

You can spam them without cooldowns.

You get guaranteed drops.

What makes them hardcore now?

[Khaoticsuccubus]

You're classifying wrong op, coil and Ex primals are for the Mainstream 30%. It's savage coil that's for the Hardcore 10%

[Zyrusticae]

I would call the primals midcore if you are basing it off difficulty.

Unfortunately, the primals are also completely irrelevant, especially in terms of gear now that the UAT weapons are so easy to upgrade with Sands of Time. The only reason to do primals at all is for vanity purposes and for the initial clear. That's basically it.

Coil is too difficult/requires too much commitment for "mainstream" players (and is obviously untouchable for casual players) and the Crystal Tower is incredibly, mind-numbingly easy. We need something in-between that actually gives gear like Coil and the Crystal Tower do. (It can fit pretty neatly in-between as well - if Coil is i110, the mid-core content can be i105, plus sands, oils, and UAT for Soldiery upgrades.)

[Ultimatecalibur]

I am referring to EXs, anything besides that are very casual in terms of difficulty.

Which is the point I'm trying to make. Stuff is either Hardcore High difficulty or Casual "Everyone can do it." Their is no middle ground.

But with exs

It takes people less then 1 day to kill them every time they are released.

Hardcore players (i.e. the top 10% of the playerbase) are the ones getting those day one clears. Blue Garter cleared SCoB T1-T3 within the first 5 days of patch 2.2, but it is still considered hardcore content. Just because they were completed day one does not mean they are medium difficulty. Lev EX and Thornmarch EX were locked behind Ifrit EX which was locked behind Titan EX. The 10% of the player base that could clear Titan EX were the ones doing Levi EX and Thornmarch EX day one.

You can spam them without cooldowns.

You get guaranteed drops.

Neither of those things make the difficulty of the EX Primals any different than what it is. A single player messing up at the wrong time in any of them can and will cause a wipe.

What makes them hardcore now?

Difficulty and the percentage of players who are completing them or have completed them.

[Alukah]

You're classifying wrong op, coil and Ex primals are for the Mainstream 30%. It's savage coil that's for the Hardcore 10%

With the amount of time commitment needed for coil I don't think it's aimed for a 40%, savage coil was created for a special part of the <10% that wanted more, a really small part that doesn't care much about rewards and more about challenges, call it high-end hardcore or the real hardcore (since most of the 10% just blow through guides to get there).

[kyuven]

Part of the problem is that initial difficulty and actual difficulty are two different things
People used to say the HM primals were pretty tough. Now we can sleep walk through them because we've done them to death.
That's part of the problem I think a lot of people miss: EVERYTHING in this game has a learning curve, sometimes to an absurd and counterintuitive degree. But just like learning a proper attack chain, once you've done it enough it ceases being hard. The "mainstream" as it stands right now is, I would say, Levi EX and t5-t7. Why? Because that's what I see most of the groups in PF shooting for. Mainstream is what is "popular" and "middle of the ground." Those encounters fit that.