Could we get some "Mainstream" content?

[Khaoticsuccubus]

You're classifying wrong op, coil and Ex primals are for the Mainstream 30%. It's savage coil that's for the Hardcore 10%

[Alukah]

You're classifying wrong op, coil and Ex primals are for the Mainstream 30%. It's savage coil that's for the Hardcore 10%

With the amount of time commitment needed for coil I don't think it's aimed for a 40%, savage coil was created for a special part of the <10% that wanted more, a really small part that doesn't care much about rewards and more about challenges, call it high-end hardcore or the real hardcore (since most of the 10% just blow through guides to get there).

[Tupsi]

With the amount of time commitment needed for coil I don't think it's aimed for a 40%, savage coil was created for a special part of the <10% that wanted more, a really small part that doesn't care much about rewards and more about challenges, call it high-end hardcore or the real hardcore (since most of the 10% just blow through guides to get there).

Savage Coil, per Yoshida, was designed as an experiment if people would want harder content - The problem, however, is it shares lockout with the current progression content (Coil 2) so more are less inclined to even play around with it.

[Khaoticsuccubus]

With the amount of time commitment needed for coil I don't think it's aimed for a 40%, savage coil was created for a special part of the <10% that wanted more, a really small part that doesn't care much about rewards and more about challenges, call it high-end hardcore or the real hardcore (since most of the 10% just blow through guides to get there).

If someone doesn't have the time or commitment needed for coil then that means they fall into the 60%, casual playerbase. This isn't really about what one person or the other defines as being mainstream or not. It's what SE divides them into. Coil was not put in there to cater to 10% of the playerbase. Savage coil was however.

[Zyrusticae]

Savage Coil, per Yoshida, was designed as an experiment if people would want harder content - The problem, however, is it shares lockout with the current progression content (Coil 2) so more are less inclined to even play around with it.

The lockout is not an issue, since the lockout only occurs once you complete the dungeon.

If someone doesn't have the time or commitment needed for coil then that means they fall into the 60%, casual playerbase. This isn't really about what one person or the other defines as being mainstream or not. It's what SE divides them into. Coil was not put in there to cater to 10% of the playerbase. Savage coil was however.

I don't know where you're getting these numbers from, but this is patently incorrect.

For example, using WoW as an example, less than 5% of the playerbase will ever complete normal raids (forget about Heroic Mode - that's for the 1%ers, which is what Savage Mode is the equivalent of). It is completely inarguable that the Coil is intended for the hardcore 10% (maybe not even 10%, more like 5% really) of the playerbase. You can make-believe that it's intended for the mainstream 30% but you're just making stuff up from thin air at that point (as well as ignoring reality).

The truth is simply that there isn't much in the way of content for the "mainstream" 30%, and basically nothing in the way of worthwhile "mainstream" content.

[Khaoticsuccubus]

The lockout is not an issue, since the lockout only occurs once you complete the dungeon.



I don't know where you're getting these numbers from, but this is patently incorrect.

For example, using WoW as an example, less than 5% of the playerbase will ever complete normal raids (forget about Heroic Mode - that's for the 1%ers, which is what Savage Mode is the equivalent of). It is completely inarguable that the Coil is intended for the hardcore 10% (maybe not even 10%, more like 5% really) of the playerbase. You can make-believe that it's intended for the mainstream 30% but you're just making stuff up from thin air at that point (as well as ignoring reality).

The truth is simply that there isn't much in the way of content for the "mainstream" 30%, and basically nothing in the way of worthwhile "mainstream" content.

K first of all, those magic numbers I'm making up are right there in the first post, I'm just reusing them.

Second, coil and ex primals are done on a regular basis by those SE dubs "mainstream". Is the mainstream the majority? No, but neither is it the minority. Your little comparison to wow would have been accurate many years ago. Nowadays that's changed completely. Coil is hard but, its not so hard it locks out everyone but the hardcore.

Players with time regularly attempt and make decent progress in it. Doesn't even matter if they complete it 100% or not, only that the attempt is being made and that progress is happening. This is something the casual base isn't really capable of as much for one reason or another, and something the hardcore base will have already completed months ago. Hence, the "mainstream" base is born.

[kyuven]

Part of the problem is that initial difficulty and actual difficulty are two different things
People used to say the HM primals were pretty tough. Now we can sleep walk through them because we've done them to death.
That's part of the problem I think a lot of people miss: EVERYTHING in this game has a learning curve, sometimes to an absurd and counterintuitive degree. But just like learning a proper attack chain, once you've done it enough it ceases being hard. The "mainstream" as it stands right now is, I would say, Levi EX and t5-t7. Why? Because that's what I see most of the groups in PF shooting for. Mainstream is what is "popular" and "middle of the ground." Those encounters fit that.

[Moqi]

I think Primal Ex fit the bill, although Titan is not forgiving AT ALL. Way too much.

Levi EX is the best example of mainstream for me. It's hard, but it's also not as unforgiving as Titan. Coil 1 as well (now that it has echo).

[Iriadysa]

I would agree that Ex primals are "mainstream".

I wouldn't categorize content according to their difficulty directly, however. Instead, I'd consider more the time investment required for such content; specifically the amount of structured time you must dedicate to a specific content.

People tend to categorize casual - hardcore and the gradient between them based on difficulty as if, for some reason, casual players were bad players and hardcores were specially good at playing. This is by no means truth and I'd bet my hide that you find the same proportionally good and bad players in both groups. The difference is one of them is bigger than the other, thus bad players seem more prolific (and in raw numbers are of course more).

On the other hand, structured time is usually the mark of a hardcore player. These are players that are able and willing to commit their game time for a specific goal with specific organization. Note that this doesn't refer to the amount of time invested, as there's certainly casuals that invest copious amounts of time into the game and hardcores that don't play as much.

The thing is, to dedicate your time to a goal you must commit with other like minded people who are willing to commit the same amount of time and, what's more prohibitive, the same time frames. Perhaps the younger people reading this won't understand it but as a more adult gamer the problem isn't necessarily not having time for your hobby but actually having a steady schedule for it.

So if you rate content in terms of structured time requirements, only Coil 2 fits the bill. The rest of the content starts at the mid range part of the gradient with Extreme primals (yes, all of them, even Titan) down to the absolute casual content.

I would agree that there's mostly casual content and that perhaps the worst part of 2.2 and onwards is the elimination of actually relevant mid range content. While Ex primals are mid range in my mind, they are also pointless in terms of actual progression... even Ramuh.

[Odett]

I would argue that EX Primals are often too easy to be considered "mainstream" content minus Ramuh, which requires some coordination, but you could still learn all these fights in a day. You can actually queue up in DF now and have a good chance of beating Levi EX. I wouldn't call SCoB hardcore. People have mentioned the time needed to do SCoB, but that's up to you and your group, really. You could just dedicate an hour or an hour and a half two days out of the week if you want to. You're the one that sets the pace.