Is this the road they will continue to take with items?

[Kiara]

Yes, sadly as others have said, this is the garbage progression that Yoshi P has chosen.

There were plenty of us that gave feedback and constructive answers during Alpha and Beta of 2.0 on NOT going with a pure Vertical Progression model, but it fell on deaf ears.

I sincerely hope the Dev Team changes this (or least strikes a BALANCE of having some decent, interesting Horizontal Progression and letting our gear be more relevant than just a few months, before it's overwritten again by the next patch).

It doesn't have to be as extreme as XI with years of relevancy (pure horizontal extreme), but it certainly doesn't have to be as silly as it is now (every few months, item Level increases, all previous gear worthless). There CAN be a balance.

[Taban]

Yes, sadly as others have said, this is the garbage progression that Yoshi P has chosen.

There were plenty of us that gave feedback and constructive answers during Alpha and Beta of 2.0 on NOT going with a pure Vertical Progression model, but it fell on deaf ears.

I sincerely hope the Dev Team changes this (or least strikes a BALANCE of having some decent, interesting Horizontal Progression and letting our gear be more relevant than just a few months, before it's overwritten again by the next patch).

It doesn't have to be as extreme as XI with years of relevancy (pure horizontal extreme), but it certainly doesn't have to be as silly as it is now (every few months, item Level increases, all previous gear worthless). There CAN be a balance.

Gear is generally only outdated every 6 months, that's a decent time IMO. How long are you wanting to sit on the same gear? I remember having BIS in ffxi, quitting for 2 years, coming back and still being 99% BIS. Guess what happened? A month later I had quit again because I had nothing to work toward.

[Kiara]

Gear is generally only outdated every 6 months, that's a decent time IMO. How long are you wanting to sit on the same gear? I remember having BIS in ffxi, quitting for 2 years, coming back and still being 99% BIS. Guess what happened? A month later I had quit again because I had nothing to work toward.

Hi Taban,

On a theoretical level, sure it's "6 months," but with Weekly Lockouts and a poorly-designed Massive Loot Pool per Chest, you may NEVER get those items for MONTHS. Our static was clearing Turn 4 consistently from early on (well before Echo), and we *never* saw the Tank Allagan Gloves drop. Ever. (No joke.) That's RNG.

Also, most groups lose about ~1 month or so learning and progressing to clear a particular turn, so overall, "No," the actual amount of time a player might have a "BiS" Item from Coil is far less than "6 Months."

[Exstal]

9~12 months is better time. 13~18 is pushing it. 19+ is ridiculous for gear to not be invalidated.

Basically, every other "hardcore" patch should invalidate the gear from 2 patches ago, or at least strongly discourage the use of it.

[Welsper59]

Hi Taban,

On a theoretical level, sure it's "6 months," but with Weekly Lockouts and a poorly-designed Massive Loot Pool per Chest, you may NEVER get those items for MONTHS. Our static was clearing Turn 4 consistently from early on (well before Echo), and we *never* saw the Tank Allagan Gloves drop. Ever. (No joke.) That's RNG.

Also, most groups lose about ~1 month or so learning and progressing to clear a particular turn, so overall, "No," the actual amount of time a player might have a "BiS" Item from Coil is far less than "6 Months."

Wait so, the complaint is that you want at least the 6 month period AFTER you've acquired BiS? That's... uhh... unusual.

[Kiara]

Wait so, the complaint is that you want at least the 6 month period AFTER you've acquired BiS? That's... uhh... unusual.

Hi Welsper,

No, I wasn't stating my preference for a fixed time "after acquiring an item," I was pointing out to Taban the claim that "6 months" being plenty of time w/ a piece of gear wasn't true at all for many people; many players don't have a "new shiny" from the day of the patch release -> say, 5 - 6 months (next iLevel Patch Bump).

Ultimately, I can only speak for myself (and many of my JP and NA friends) in saying that the current pace of gear inflation is too accelerated for our tastes.

So much work is wasted (fights / dungeons being outdated so quickly), or if something gets to be too RNG-reliant (e.g., certain HA piece not dropping), I'm hearing more and more comments (and I feel the same way), that, "Meh, doesn't matter. Next (big) patch will invalidate the gear anyways. Whatever."

The general feeling of detachment from the rewards you're getting because of how fast Item Level / Vertical Progression is going isn't something I like in FF XIV at all.

I hope they change this.

[Tupsi]

I think we can safely say that was the point at which the development department up at SE had lost sight of what FFXI's fanbase saw in their game. There were some seriously annoying/broken things in FFXI, but game balance be damned, the fans loved it regardless.

They had to do something due to XIV's development then later ARR's development. Abyssea was fine in concept but in execution it pretty much butchered a lot of XI because XI was designed and built to have things to do as you progressed and leveling was also part of the experience since aside the 'standard camps' it gave you a reason to go places beyond just warping to your next event.

The ironic thing is, even after all was said and done, XI still updates quicker and even sometimes add systems other MMOs don't have or stuff this one "can't do" per SE's words.

[Taban]

Hi Welsper,

No, I wasn't stating my preference for a fixed time "after acquiring an item," I was pointing out to Taban the claim that "6 months" being plenty of time w/ a piece of gear wasn't true at all for many people; many players don't have a "new shiny" from the day of the patch release -> say, 5 - 6 months (next iLevel Patch Bump).

Ultimately, I can only speak for myself (and many of my JP and NA friends) in saying that the current pace of gear inflation is too accelerated for our tastes.

So much work is wasted (fights / dungeons being outdated so quickly), or if something gets to be too RNG-reliant (e.g., certain HA piece not dropping), I'm hearing more and more comments (and I feel the same way), that, "Meh, doesn't matter. Next (big) patch will invalidate the gear anyways. Whatever."

The general feeling of detachment from the rewards you're getting because of how fast Item Level / Vertical Progression is going isn't something I like in FF XIV at all.

I hope they change this.

They can't account for your personal RNG when creating a release schedule. It could take me 5 years to see a pair of High Allagan Gloves drop from Turn 7 (odds are it won't, but it could). That doesn't mean they should delay releasing upgrades. Those same players who don't have the shiny new item from the day of the patch release probably won't have the shiny new upgrade on the day of the next patch release 6 months later. How long do you want gear to stagnate before you're comfortable that you've had yours long enough?

[Kiara]

They can't account for your personal RNG when creating a release schedule. It could take me 5 years to see a pair of High Allagan Gloves drop from Turn 7 (odds are it won't, but it could). That doesn't mean they should delay releasing upgrades. Those same players who don't have the shiny new item from the day of the patch release probably won't have the shiny new upgrade on the day of the next patch release 6 months later. How long do you want gear to stagnate before you're comfortable that you've had yours long enough?

Hi Taban,

You seem to be going to black & white extremes here. First, it was in regards to the idea that it was a full "6 months," which is simply not true. Perhaps for the freak RNG 0.001% / one player that beat the newest end game raid on Day 1, and won their drop, but realistically the Dev Team can estimate and see past data that it'll probably be a few weeks / 1st month before a small group starts getting a drop here or there.

They also have access to their Drop Rate and metrics. They know if there's only a 1:12 chance for something to drop, and factoring in time / clears, etc. what the distribution of rewards is going to be like over time.

Lastly, no one's advocating for your extreme "let gear stagnate" stance. Those of us that are asking for *some* (partial) Horizontal Progression are essentially asking for similar things: We WANT NEW GEAR also. It's just a different angle to approach it.

A quick example: *IF* Stats mattered more, and they made a discernible difference, you could easily have multiple builds for -

(All the same "Item Level")

* Tank VIT Build - Blood Tanking, Highest HP Pool, etc.
* Tank STR Build - Strength that actually made a real difference in Block Damage Reduction, and Damage #'s (which means more Enmity / more Offensive Tank).
* Tank DEX Build - Dexterity that really mattered, that affected Parry Rate, Block Rate and/or Evasion Rate.
* Gear that had "Increased Enmity"
* Gear that had "Enhances Rampart" (making Rampart AOE Shield Buff for anyone in range).
* Maybe a Rare Crafted Set (w/ Very Rare Dungeon Drop Mats) that allowed slotting of Counterattack Materia.

Etc.

Instead with Vertical Progression and Limited Stats that really matter, Yoshi P has painted himself into a corner. He has no choice but to keep increasing Item Level and increase the same boring limited Stats every few months, because there are NO other venues / no other possible meaningful gear.

Horizontal Progression (or even Partial Horizontal Progression) still gives you New Gear and it *could* come out at the same pace as now ("6 months" as you say), except that your current max level set isn't completely eradicated.