Is this the road they will continue to take with items?

[Gardes]

I will never understand the hate for vertical progression. (Though I'm sure you will all try and explain it to me) If I had to use the same gear for 6+ months I'd leave the game. I have to have something new to reach for.

While vertical progression has its flaws, I'd rather go with that than be stuck with the same pieces of gear for years again.

Like wise, I will never understand people who get new release gear and then proceed to glamour old bikinis over them either. I would rather have old gear being relevant for a long time or having a hybrid system where old gear with desirable effects be relevant in MILD ilvl progression by having its ilvl and pure base stats upgrade-able by acquiring new items with sane drop rates from new content and being able to just glamour it over new fancier looking gear in other new content in case said new gear is proven to be inferior by theorycrafters, at which point SE can tweak those new effects on new gear with new looks to be more desirable.

As it is, the new gear argument for vertical progression seems weak to me because they all do nearly the same thing, just looking different. Following the hardcore theorycrafters argument also seems weak because the majority of players dont even read what's written in the game and most players don't even play in the pool where theorycrafting and min-maxing really matters. You only have yourself to blame if you feel like you're restricted to 'bis' sets instead of working with what you have and can get to make your own builds and skillsets when you aren't even playing in the same field as the extreme hardcores.

Unless what current arr players want are newer and stronger bikinis each patch...

[ispano]

The point is not to have something not to reach for, that would just be stagnation (neither vertical or horizontal progression). It's to have something to reach for that doesn't negate the previous thing.

And that's the problem. If it doesn't negate the previous item, it's either useless, or only useful at certain times or places. Meaning you have to keep both. Or you just pick what you like, but then they can't balance the game well and it becomes overly easy or flat out broken.

Also, as others have said, the illusion of choice and theorycrafting the optimal pieces.

[Ooshima]

People always like to see new things. It is human nature. The majority is like that, you have to keep them entertained with new contents, new gear pieces, new glamour items etc.

BTW OP, JAN till now is about a good 8-9 months, how did you not expect any change to happen?

[cryptic_angel]

Back in january, i90 was the best gear you could get. Of course there's better gear now and tougher events, so the old i90 gear (and i70) is far easier to obtain and the new base ilvl you generally want for current endgame.
I think yoshi said recently somewhere he'd like to go back to having more unique stats on gear, but then he also wants the game to be easy for new players that join in the expansion. We might see some different gearing progression, but then again, we might not.

I think yoshi said recently somewhere he'd like to go back to having more unique stats on gear, but then he also wants the game to be easy for new players that join in the expansion. We might see some different gearing progression, but then again, we might not.

He also wants the game to be easy for new players that join in the expansion.

easy for new players

new players

Once you're subbed, what you want is less meaningful than what some random person that might be a potential player might want.

I have lost count of how many times yoshi has trotted out the "new players" excuse. Keep planning for those new players SE, soon people who actually sub will get tired of vertical progression grinds.

[Fendred]

Regardless, it doesn't matter what people think works or doesn't work. What matters is there is a subset of players who want there to be a stable content hierarchy that can be revisited. That cannot be accomplished with such heavy handed vertical progression. The amount of extra work they'd have to go into just to give incentives to players to do all the old stuff would start to become ridiculous after some particular amount of content is reached. So to satisfy these players they'd need to approach the progression differently. The gearing concern is just a symptom of a larger issue.

[tymora]

Power Creep.

[Gardes]

Regardless, it doesn't matter what people think works or doesn't work. What matters is there is a subset of players who want there to be a stable content hierarchy that can be revisited. That cannot be accomplished with such heavy handed vertical progression. The amount of extra work they'd have to go into just to give incentives to players to do all the old stuff would start to become ridiculous after some particular amount of content is reached. So to satisfy these players they'd need to approach the progression differently. The gearing concern is just a symptom of a larger issue.

I totally agree with this. Pity that there will be people who will dismiss this subset of players with the reasoning that it's okay for content to be obsolete, that they don't want to go back to older content but then proceed to defend SE when people complain about the quality and longevity of the content in the patches by saying that they come up with a patch every 3 months is already very fast. Doesn't occur to them that they have to come up with new patches at breakneck speed is exactly because every new content they make save for the weekly lock coil doesn't last long, I guess..

[Exstal]

I believe those who want horizontal progression want it to last for a year or two. I think that's foolish. I thought it was annoying in Aion that I just kept 2 sets of armour for 18 months because anything after it was minimally better or flat out worse than I had. No drive to do fights that the gear was worse than what you had.

[Empressia]

Vertical progression should have died when WoW showed that it falls apart later on. Horizontal progression is best progression.

ORLY? Did u ever played GW2 and noticed how 99% players there use Zerk gears all the time? Looking everyone is using the EXACT STATS everywhere is hideous mind u

[Gardes]

ORLY? Did u ever played GW2 and noticed how 99% players there use Zerk gears all the time? Looking everyone is using the EXACT STATS everywhere is hideous mind u

Like...how everyone in this game is aiming for det/crit save for a couple classes? How the only thing stopping people would be SE's RNG and locks and the player's ability to get them?