Question 18 of XVII Q&A Live Letter

[Ellatrix]

It's obvious you have no idea what motivates end game raiders. It pointless continuing this conversation.

So I don't know what my own motivations are? My group had one of the earliest clears of T9 on the server and is working on Savage coil (which, by the way, only rewards a title!). My sell LS is comprised primarily of 3 statics that have a combined 40+ T9 clears. I think I'm in a very good position to talk about what motivates the top tier raiders.

[SarcasmMisser]

So I don't know what my own motivations are? My group had one of the earliest clears of T9 on the server and is working on Savage coil (which, by the way, only rewards a title!). My sell LS is comprised primarily of 3 statics that have a combined 40+ T9 clears. I think I'm in a very good position to talk about what motivates the top tier raiders.

I was server first T9 and T8 on the server of that person you are replying to, and our FC covers every server first since 2.1 andwe are also the only FC that sells T9 carries so take that as you will. Not that we are against the lock out (though I have no idea what this argument is even about anymore) but if anything the lockout is great for both raiders and sellers since it keeps things competitive for the short while that it is relevant and restricts supply making carries insanely profitable.

No one who is actually competitive cares about who is clearing since well before 2.3, and we need money for melds.

[PrimeEvilPanda]

-snip-

You just affirmed that the only reason you think the lockout works is because it benefits YOUR group greatly. Open up the turns for everyone and there goes the market since it will give everyone and anyone the chance to sell the runs (if they want to) - you have it backwards though (as far as market goes); having it locked doesn't keep it competitive, it negates it seeing as how you basically have it cornered because you have the advantage of a steady group that can sell runs and do runs on the sides (assuming YOU DO have those alts).

I'm not hating you for it. Lockout or not, this shit gets nerfed anyways and anyone wasting their gil for a CARRY is debatable (I've seen people buy GEAR. Personally to me, that's different..) so don't think anyone has sour grapes on the matter.

But in this post you come off as if, from a business perspective, you want to make sure NO ONE else has their hands on selling runs and keep it limited with only a few groups so you can make bank as much as you can. If you think this is beneficial to the community, it's more of the devil you know I suppose. If people are comfortable (ignorance is bliss) with you and other elite groups just having control of it versus the entire community (steady hardcore raiders and a few casuals), then yeah - pick your poison since we haven't seen the effect of EVERYONE being given the option to sell runs.

If anything, The Hunt taught me that having unlimited access to free shit makes anyone cray-cray with greed. The REAL question is, had we not had lock-outs to begin with, would stupid effects like the Hunt not happen in the first place? I mean it's like denying someone fatty food for months, then leaving them alone in a room full of sweet stuff, what do you think will happen?

[ToffeeCoffee]

what she said

This is spot on accurate. In addition to this, lockouts force you to run Coil only at a particular time and only with the same people (unless you're prepared to deal with the rigours of PUG'ing).
Whether I happen to kite T7 better than any of those elite statics selling carries, it doesn't matter because I can't even do Coil due to the restrictions imposed and will never join an elitist static.
So open it up to everyone, the elitists are going to sell carries on their 2nd and 3rd accounts until the lockout is removed anyway.
Server 1st who cares, they're all running parsers anyway.
Making players wait entire patches to access content through Duty Finder such as 2nd Coil and Ramuh Ex just does not make sense.

#itallgetsnerfedanyway

[Exstal]

This is spot on accurate. In addition to this, lockouts force you to run Coil only at a particular time and only with the same people (unless you're prepared to deal with the rigours of PUG'ing).
Whether I happen to kite T7 better than any of those elite statics selling carries, it doesn't matter because I can't even do Coil due to the restrictions imposed and will never join an elitist static.
So open it up to everyone, the elitists are going to sell carries on their 2nd and 3rd accounts until the lockout is removed anyway.
Server 1st who cares, they're all running parsers anyway.
Making players wait entire patches to access content through Duty Finder such as 2nd Coil and Ramuh Ex just does not make sense.

#itallgetsnerfedanyway

[Volcano]

Elitist has a negative meaning among MMOS. regardless if you know it's "true" meaning it's almost always used as a negative term.

[Exstal]

Elitist has a negative meaning among MMOS. regardless if you know it's "true" meaning it's almost always used as a negative term.

It's funny because the amount of real elitists is fairly low. People just like to make excuses for everything. What people actual mean is "impatient" but.. *shrug* ignorance is bliss.

[SarcasmMisser]

...

Huh? I was pointing out how a lockout restricts supply therefore making selling lucrative, people are saying that taking the lock out will benefit carrying too much but at the moment it's actually the best situation for mercs because it makes the most money. T9 in particular is not at all an easy carry so it's not like I'd anticipate tons of competition even if there was no lockout, It will take an increase in the ilevel and echo before it is easy to carry.

As it turns out carrying someone is hard, and for all the people out there who claim that it's just groups that hold them back there's a real shortage of players who are truly as good as they say they are. I do see the effect of everyone being able to sell runs on non-lock out content and still few step up. If anything I wish there was more competition on our server, challenge is still the real reason to play and money/loot is secondary to that.

Having it locked does keep it competitive because loot in progression content is meant to be for a group, not a player, and loot being a team's business has been bread and butter for progression raiding since forever. Look at how groups rationed out UAT and sands in the early weeks of 2.2, it was working as intended so when raids come out it is made for absolutely no one else in mind but progression raiders.

And for SE it is good because by average someone in a group will draw the short straw and get terrible loot luck, and they actually depend on this to extend the content past the number of slots in your gear converted into weeks; until the next raid comes out. Personally I think they undermined this in 2.3 and the lock out during this patch is somewhat pointless, especially when it conflicts with the actual progression content in this patch, savage coil.

[PrimeEvilPanda]

Having it locked does keep it competitive because loot in progression content is meant to be for a group, not a player, and loot being a team's business has been bread and butter for progression raiding since forever.

Coil, unrestricted, without the buffs... do you believe it will suddenly become hell on earth where sells for carries/gears are going to flood and ruin market/gameplay?

I'm reading it wrong, but you sound like you're contradicting yourself - If restrictions are changed, you'll still need a competent group to clear/farm it - but this time the "competition" pool will be wider because groups will have better versatility in farming schedules. So per your note, this will benefit progression groups. Hopefully I'm understanding what you mean.

The restrictions we currently have are put in place because this is the only way SE feels they can extend the content.

[SarcasmMisser]

Coil, unrestricted, without the buffs... do you believe it will suddenly become hell on earth where sells for carries/gears are going to flood and ruin market/gameplay?

I'm reading it wrong, but you sound like you're contradicting yourself - If restrictions are changed, you'll still need a competent group to clear/farm it - but this time the "competition" pool will be wider because groups will have better versatility in farming schedules. So per your note, this will benefit progression groups. Hopefully I'm understanding what you mean.

The restrictions we currently have are put in place because this is the only way SE feels they can extend the content.

Your latter point was half my exact point, it is in place because they consider loot as a team/server wide thing as opposed to a personal thing and by the law of large numbers the distribution will be even world wide, but your average group will be left wanting loot far longer than a plain loot lock out. It is not for our benefit but theirs.

In terms of promoting competition the intended design for a team based lock out is so clears are very firmly fixed within a static team, so the idea is that every new clear is with a completely fresh team and everyone gets the same progression experience, this is what I mean by competitive because at least early on each team develops unique strategies in competition with each other. This is diminished as time goes on by the amount of clears leading to information sharing and videos that standardize strats, so the problem solving part of progression is lost. I think when it reaches the point where things are "standard" a lock out per team stops serving a point aside from restricting loot, and we were past that point well before 2.3.

They also keep the integrity of things such as titles, but this game only does it for savage and there's no realm first titles so I actually don't think it would be too bad to have such a lock out as someone proposed before, where there is no entry restriction but if one person in the group has cleared before there is no loot. And in regards to savage the situation you described is absolutely the case, the fact that it shares a lock out with something on farm is actually encouraging less competition right now and its a shame, stuff that is in progression should not be treated the same as something people are farming.

In regards to carries my exact point is that carries won't flood the market much more now I think we agree. Carrying some content actually is decently difficult and to be honest I don't know if its a lack of interest or the fact that most people aren't up to the task of carrying. Titan EM was never locked and had incredible demand but for a short while there were incredibly few people carrying it because doing it with 3 DPS at i90 was too tricky for most people capable of clearing. The reason why a lock out makes carries insanely profitable isn't because there's a lack of competition, but because the fact you can only carry one person a week means the price is set by the highest bidder.