Question 18 of XVII Q&A Live Letter

[ChriZirhC]

make it one clear per week - after one clear you cant loot anymore but can still enter - yes this will encourage selling coil runs and probably rmt, but I guess that's the minority compared to the people who can truly benefit from this. the good will weigh more than the bad. the community will be really happy.

or the safe route. create a practice coil with the same fight, no story(remove all cutscenes), no loot but anyone can enter.

[Jinrya-Geki]

You've been saying this for the better half of a year but here you are, still playing. Until you leave you're just proving yourself wrong lol.

I am still playing, I did take a break, and made a rage quit thread. it from an extreme lack of things to do when I am not out, or trying to work on a comic production, or working the overnight at security.

And I am sure there are plenty of other people who have quit and are never coming back over this issue of not being able to play with the friends they made.

[Ellatrix]

Because those "small portion of the population" actually are the ones who release strategies and guides for others to follow, those are the ones who balance the economy from having access to certain raid drops and selling those, and most importantly those 5% that you mentioned were ironically the targeted audience that you designed the content for in the first place. This would remove a lot of motivation for things like world's first and achievements.

It sounds like you have no idea about who participates in selling runs. Nobody popular releases bad guides to make players fail so they can sell them runs, so I have no idea what kind of point you're trying to make.

Selling runs is what we do when we ran out of content to do for the week, and really it's a chance to play with my group of friends rather than strictly my static before it is a vehicle to make money. This has no effect on pushing for world first, etc.

[skaterger]

It sounds like you have no idea about who participates in selling runs. Nobody popular releases bad guides to make players fail so they can sell them runs, so I have no idea what kind of point you're trying to make.

Selling runs is what we do when we ran out of content to do for the week, and really it's a chance to play with my group of friends rather than strictly my static before it is a vehicle to make money. This has no effect on pushing for world first, etc.

Okay let me put it another way. When I talk about selling runs, its not about the previous tier of content (i.e. T1-5) but at the current tier (third coil in 2.4). If content can be cleared more quickly through selling runs/carries when it is first released, it would reduce the motivation of people going for world's first since everybody can play catch up quickly. In turn, they are less motivated to clear content as fast resulting in slower guides/videos which in turn has a snowball effect on less hardcore raiders and all the way down to everyone. So in effect, it is much more than the 3-5% you are saying. Also, since coil was intended to challenge end game players, should they not have priority over the rest in terms of how they design it?

People who buy runs aren't going to go for world first or write guides.

This entire game is built around playing catch up every other major content patch. The people pushing for world first know this, and this doesn't change with selling a few people clears.

I reiterate my point that you have a completely flawed view on the situation.

It's obvious you have no idea what motivates end game raiders. It pointless continuing this conversation.

No one getting carried is going to be getting a world's first. Those carries you are worried about don't happen till long after the world's first down and then the other FCs proceed to learn and farm. No world's first FC is going to give even the slightest bit of thought or concern to people being carried a month down the line! They will do what they always do because they want to do it and be the first. Some idiot a month down the line paying gil to to win isn't going to phase them at all. lol

So you are saying with a one loot per lockout system, those groups won't be selling their runs to anybody stupid enough to throw gil at them?

Not that we are against the lock out (though I have no idea what this argument is even about anymore) but if anything the lockout is great for both raiders and sellers since it keeps things competitive for the short while that it is relevant and restricts supply making carries insanely profitable.

This pretty much. The reason why sells are worth so much gil and so highly sought after is because of the lockout. Though it still happens, the lockout restricts this to a great extent, making it so that those who really want the clear have to fork out a huge amount of money. As yoshi mentioned, only 2000 players have cleared T9 so far, so even though its been more than 4 months after its release, its still a highly prized commodity. Making it able to be farmed repeatedly with different people either by carrying or selling would devalue it to something not much different from hunts. And as mentioned, the lockouts will always be removed once the new tier is released.

[maxthunder1]

Selling is indeed the main issue that would crop up - Also there is no 'good system' in place, the only system in place is to keep the content relevant until 2.4, that way you don't "run out" of things to do.

Here's an idea why dont they make real relevant content? Everything is 8 man dungeon there really isnt much content other than coil the 2 towers and the ex primals and to be honest im sick of seeing primals, time for something completely new.

[Ellatrix]

Okay let me put it another way. When I talk about selling runs, its not about the previous tier of content (i.e. T1-5) but at the current tier (third coil in 2.4). If content can be cleared more quickly through selling runs/carries when it is first released, it would reduce the motivation of people going for world's first since everybody can play catch up quickly. In turn, they are less motivated to clear content as fast resulting in slower guides/videos which in turn has a snowball effect on less hardcore raiders and all the way down to everyone. So in effect, it is much more than the 3-5% you are saying. Also, since coil was intended to challenge end game players, should they not have priority over the rest in terms of how they design it?

People who buy runs aren't going to go for world first or write guides.

This entire game is built around playing catch up every other major content patch. The people pushing for world first know this, and this doesn't change with selling a few people clears.

I reiterate my point that you have a completely flawed view on the situation.

[SDaemon]

If content can be cleared more quickly through selling runs/carries when it is first released, it would reduce the motivation of people going for world's first since everybody can play catch up quickly. In turn, they are less motivated to clear content as fast resulting in slower guides/videos which in turn has a snowball effect on less hardcore raiders and all the way down to everyone.

No one getting carried is going to be getting a world's first. Those carries you are worried about don't happen till long after the world's first down and then the other FCs proceed to learn and farm. No world's first FC is going to give even the slightest bit of thought or concern to people being carried a month down the line! They will do what they always do because they want to do it and be the first. Some idiot a month down the line paying gil to to win isn't going to phase them at all. lol

[Ellatrix]

It's obvious you have no idea what motivates end game raiders. It pointless continuing this conversation.

So I don't know what my own motivations are? My group had one of the earliest clears of T9 on the server and is working on Savage coil (which, by the way, only rewards a title!). My sell LS is comprised primarily of 3 statics that have a combined 40+ T9 clears. I think I'm in a very good position to talk about what motivates the top tier raiders.

[SDaemon]

So you are saying with a one loot per lockout system, those groups won't be selling their runs to anybody stupid enough to throw gil at them?

I never said they won't sell, after they learn and farm the turns to their hearts content they will most definitely start to sell runs. But selling those runs will have no impact on them or the world first clear groups. Its no different then when players sold X Primal runs.

[SarcasmMisser]

So I don't know what my own motivations are? My group had one of the earliest clears of T9 on the server and is working on Savage coil (which, by the way, only rewards a title!). My sell LS is comprised primarily of 3 statics that have a combined 40+ T9 clears. I think I'm in a very good position to talk about what motivates the top tier raiders.

I was server first T9 and T8 on the server of that person you are replying to, and our FC covers every server first since 2.1 andwe are also the only FC that sells T9 carries so take that as you will. Not that we are against the lock out (though I have no idea what this argument is even about anymore) but if anything the lockout is great for both raiders and sellers since it keeps things competitive for the short while that it is relevant and restricts supply making carries insanely profitable.

No one who is actually competitive cares about who is clearing since well before 2.3, and we need money for melds.