Warrior Improvement Questions

[JarinArenos]

Overall: Your job is aggro, DPS is completely secondary. Yes, it's a good thing to try for, but for MT, it's excusable to completely ignore it. For OT, your job is to stay below the MT, so watch your aggro bar. Adds come before anything else. I would say ignore random advice, but you need to know your class first, and your choice of cross-class abilities scares me. :P (There's good guides out there, study up!)

Edit: here is a simple rotation guide to get you started on what you should and shouldn't use in different situations. You obviously need to know when to change it up, but it's a good place to start.
Here is a decent tanking guide.

[Ouza]

I stopped using flash or provoke because it seemed to provoke much wrath in other players, even if I was the only tank.

My biggest issue with leaving defiance off is mainly that as an off tank parties get angry if the healer heals me. and with defiance off, my ability to myself is severely limited along with less HP.

then i die form having nearly zero way to recover HP on my own and they tell me i stink and to quit and make fun of me dying.

which is what really hurts.

[DarioSkydragon]

Ouza, take it easy and have fun. Games aren't a job. They are enterteinment.

If anyone says bad things to you, just ignore them.

In my first Amdapor Keep run, i was ilvl 50, the other 3 players rage quit in the first trash mob because i didnt kept aggro properly. Do you know what I did? Reenter the instance 30 sec later and it was fine. Sometimes i lose aggro, but i never lend my attention to players that simply wants to say bullshit.

Im improving my skills, and today i know that aggro management is a task that affects all players, not just the tank. So, if you are in ST, pops up Defiance and pull the boss. Use Unchaneid, Berserk and Bloodbath, and rotate your defensive CDs. Anyone cant tell bullshit of you.

If you are OT, its good to attack without Defiance, so you wont generate so much aggro. The healers must stay awake. If you die, thats ok. Its part of the game.

I wish you have a better time tanking.

P.S.: Sorry for my bad english. Im brazilian and im improving.

[Krindor]

First of all, you can bypass the 1000 word limit by editing the post so it doesn't end up as a friggin mess
Secondly don't listen to their shit talk, if it's going as it should they have no right to tell you what to do
For Defiance you dance around with it, don't use it when off-tanking, activate it just before adds spawn then remove it after adds are done.
When OT don't use BB combo as it generates a shit ton of aggro, a WAR OT usually use SE and SP to keep the boss debuffed
As Jarin mentioned Savage Blade and Haymaker aren't that good, Provoke is a must for bosses with swap mechanics and flash is the only skill that uses mp so it's a good one to have.
Battling for aggro can be fun and doesn't really do anything other than giving the healers a headache if it's in a situation that isn't serious, but remember to always stand where the other tank is so you don't give the melee DPS a headache.

Tomahawk is a good opener and I personally always use it to open on bosses.

As for buffs, those are to be used, there's a reason as to why we have them and the healers should be happy if you use em as their workload decreases.

As an MT open with Tomahawk and then Unchained+Berserk and BB combo

As for number 5, keeping aggro is your job and at 50 it isn't a hard job either unless the ilvl difference is too big. So they have right to complain, especially the healer, unless they actually did something stupid like putting regen on you just before you pull. Marking is good pre 50 when holding aggro as it can be a bit hard to keep aggro but at 50 you usually open with a couple of OP and it should hold the aggro of the mobs for a while, just be sure to check that you have aggro on em.

[monkeytheman]

Don't use savage blade as a warrior, ever. It is completely pointless without the combo bonus. HS > SS > BB is your main aggro combo for single target, savage blade is paladin's version of skull sunder so there is no point of us using it. Provoke is needed for endgame tank-swaps, and is nice if you lose aggro on something. Provoke is NOT a taunt like in WoW or other games. It puts you at ONE threat higher than the highest threat on the enemies threat table. So if you use it to open a fight, be aware that you will only have generated 1 total threat until you start attacking it with anything else. As for defiance, just turn it off in fights where you are not going to be tanking anything. No point in reducing your damage if you are not going to be tanking at any point, but obviously turn it back on in fights where you need to pick up adds soon, or in fights that require tank swaps its generally safer to always leave it on for that. As for people getting mad at you for having defiance off as the OT in fights where you aren't the main tank and don't need to do anything but slap the boss.....all I can say is I've NEVER seen this happen before. Sounds like you have some rotten luck with the people you are with.

[Kyana]

Get rid of Savage-Blade. Useless as Warrior.
Haymaker on the other hand is not that bad. Flash is weak compared to Overpower, and it's also missing the blind effect, while the slow from Haymaker is another way to reduce incomming damage. I guess that one is personal preference.
Provoke is essential though. You have no chance in endgame content without it. Get it, keep it, love it.

When tanking you are the person who dicdates the speed of a run.
You decide how much you pull, where to tank and where to go. If others pull on purpose, let them tank the mobs.
When tanking you always have tank buff up and only you decide if you can drop it (Stone Vigil hard last boss for example).
When playing with other tanks, don't fight about aggro. If someone keeps trying to steal hate be smart and let them have it to prevent the mob from turning in circles (which drives Drg and Mnk really mad) and reduces incomming dmg for the party.
This also includes dodging AoE or cone attacks. always try to dodge in a way which prevents the mob from moving or turning and position it so melee can effectively use their skills.

You should keep aggro at any moment during a fight, except it's a tank swap.
If people continue to attack another mob than you and draw hate, set target marks.
If stupid people unload all their cooldowns right at pull and steal hate, let them have it.
Aggro management is a group effort.
You should do what you can to keep everything you're supposed to tank on you though. If you have problems with packs, Steel Cyclone offers great hate generation.
If you're really a good tank you know when you messed up.

Don't become an ego tank like so many others who can't bear not being MT and keep spamming hate combos to steal hate.
When you're OT and there is no need for you to tank anything, just disable defiance and, and that's the great thing about War compared to Pld, keep using the Storms debuffs on the mob.
They make the life of the MT easier and you don't generate more hate than any other DD.


Also, don't use any rotation guides!
As tank you often have to make quick decisions and can't just "finish the combo, then try to grab the mob which keeps smacking the half dead healer".
You will do alot of target swaps to keep an eye on enmity levels and use your tools to enable the rest of the party to do their jobs.

That's your job as tank. Not taking damage. Everyone can do that.
You're there to take as little damage as you can while keeping the enemies focus on you, so everyone else can do their thing.
That being said, it's a good thing if you play other classes too, because you will see for yourself what they require from the tank, to be effective.

[Warrlordd]

Whoooa buddy sounds like you've been taken on the troll tour. Your goals as WAR are as such:

1. If in a non-static you WILL be asked to OT. More than likely. so know how to do this, what it requires. This includes stance-dancing (defiance off/on). Defiance on before you begin tanking responsibilities. Defiance off when tanking responsibility is over

2. If you've been tanking for 5 years, the idea of others telling you how to tank is not new.

3. Don't CC Savage blade. Take flash back, its handy.

4. Definitely use CD's like convalescence. It's very good, as long as you aren't using it to reduce a large attack's damage. Featherfoot/Haymaker, I never use them. You have enough other skills to not need to be proccing that dodge, and the odds of you dodging a boss's attacks are slim to zero.

5. Yes, it is your job to hold 2nd aggro. Whatever it takes, do it.

6. Ultimately, if you are doing your job as well as you say you are (and I believe you that you are) you have no problem and are just meeting some silly trolls.

[Rbstr]

I don't really understand what you're on about. I agree it sounds like you've been thrown through a loo by idiots or trolls.

Savage blade is super terrible. Do not use it. You have your own enmity combo that is good. Haymaker can be kinda useful.

You might be using provoke wrong? It does not give you additional enmity. It simply makes you the first person on the mob's enmity list - do not use it to pull (because any action by anyone will give them lead over you at that point) or if you already have the hate on the mob. You want to pull with Tomahawk.

Overpower is better than flash, I pretty much only flash if I'm pacified or if I need to do enmity on something when I can't target it.

[Ouza]

My real problem, that brings me to tears, is Praetorium, where I am forced to be left behind for mob meat becasue i am the useless offtank. I spend the entire dungeon, until the last bosses, being left at transporters and killed by mobs so everybody else can speed run. when I complain i'm told i'm a useless off tank. when i try to OT the main 4 ending bosses i'm told to get out of the way (I stay on the bosses rear side!). If i try to get ago when the MT losses it various party members get angry that i'm trying to be a tank when they have one. I can then spend 20,000 gill repairing my iL90 gear after 5 or 6 deaths, which would be unavoidable if I was taken seriously.

I often see the other tank losing agro quite easily to anybody. even if they keep it well, they do a horrible job at controlling mobs. If I try to step in and tank swap I then get blasted with LOLs and told to stop trying to be a tank, that i'm mob meat or DPs or some other BS. Its to the point that if I duty roulette Praetorium I rage quit as soon as i land on screen. i'd rather wait 30 minutes to reroll the daily dungeon, than deal with that mess and the resulting 20,000 gil in repairs and tears.

and there was an instance in coin counter (more than once) where they laugh that I dont pull the whole room and agro multiple mobs at once, even to the point of kicking me if i dont chase anyone down to get agro back. (I can pull a party through the coin counter boss without deaths or dying myself, but since he runs after other players when I have full emnity they blame me and i know its the mechanic of the boss) (for example, because this happens in many LL dungeons when i duty roulette them)

if any of the low level dungeons snag me for the daily duty and I tag to help newbies not pull entire rooms of mobs, I get a lot of trolling from them. arum vale i hate for this reason, they will run around and agro other mobs, or piss on me if i only pull one mob at a time.

as per all of your lovely adevice, thank you.

i have reorganized my quick keys and even made macros for buffs and OT dps sets. I feel better knowing that I was doing the right thing the first time with provoke, flash, and over power.
i have done a lot of reading, not that i didnt do it before, but I spent hours yesterday reading forums, player issues, fixes, and warrior guides. I also have all my classes above 15 already and some above 30. I started out as a paladin and my husband realized that his scholar would be better matched with a war and asked me if i minded changing tank classes and pairing my white mage with his pld instead.

Thank you so very much.

[Ouza]

when Adds spawn behind you and immediately go after the DPS (usually also behind you ) is there a trick to getting agro off them any quicker than flash/provoke > overpower/tamahawk > heavy blade/steel cyclone?

(i use a combination of the above that have the / to gain agro depending on where my wrath is at and how far away the add is)

was doing tam tara hard today and adds kept spawning behind me and running after the DPs , i got them off her, WHEN she didnt run away.

when DPS or healer does get agro or runs ahead and gets agro, and then hauls off down a pathway far away from me, am i a bad tank for refusing to chase after them and get agro off them?

I retorted to the DPS' obscenities that their generating agro was due to their poorly timed AOE's and not watching their threat meter and not targeting my target. she called that BS... I feel I was right. i shoudlnt have to leave the main boss to pull agro off of them with the adds because if they were targeting the boss then my AOE agro moves would pull the adds off anyway. Right?

and when the adds spawn on top of a ranged DPS and they still keep their distance from me or run farther away from me, should i still leave the boss to go grab the adds? i feel that if the DPS gets adn Add spawn and they are too far for my ranged moves that it is their responsibility to run closer in so i can pull agro off them. it should not be my job (and I am not lazy for) refusing to drop my mob and run to their aid? or am i?

i feel i shouldnt run away from the main boss and mob because they will just follow me over there anyway and it will be that much harder for me to keep ago on the main group if i do.

is this what I am doing wrong?

i'm tired of the DPs putting me and my healer husband down during dungeons, it distracts from us fully concentrating on the task at hand. I am tired of the DPS trolling, if that is what it really is.