Warrior Improvement Questions

[Rbstr]

I don't really understand what you're on about. I agree it sounds like you've been thrown through a loo by idiots or trolls.

Savage blade is super terrible. Do not use it. You have your own enmity combo that is good. Haymaker can be kinda useful.

You might be using provoke wrong? It does not give you additional enmity. It simply makes you the first person on the mob's enmity list - do not use it to pull (because any action by anyone will give them lead over you at that point) or if you already have the hate on the mob. You want to pull with Tomahawk.

Overpower is better than flash, I pretty much only flash if I'm pacified or if I need to do enmity on something when I can't target it.

[Ouza]

My real problem, that brings me to tears, is Praetorium, where I am forced to be left behind for mob meat becasue i am the useless offtank. I spend the entire dungeon, until the last bosses, being left at transporters and killed by mobs so everybody else can speed run. when I complain i'm told i'm a useless off tank. when i try to OT the main 4 ending bosses i'm told to get out of the way (I stay on the bosses rear side!). If i try to get ago when the MT losses it various party members get angry that i'm trying to be a tank when they have one. I can then spend 20,000 gill repairing my iL90 gear after 5 or 6 deaths, which would be unavoidable if I was taken seriously.

I often see the other tank losing agro quite easily to anybody. even if they keep it well, they do a horrible job at controlling mobs. If I try to step in and tank swap I then get blasted with LOLs and told to stop trying to be a tank, that i'm mob meat or DPs or some other BS. Its to the point that if I duty roulette Praetorium I rage quit as soon as i land on screen. i'd rather wait 30 minutes to reroll the daily dungeon, than deal with that mess and the resulting 20,000 gil in repairs and tears.

and there was an instance in coin counter (more than once) where they laugh that I dont pull the whole room and agro multiple mobs at once, even to the point of kicking me if i dont chase anyone down to get agro back. (I can pull a party through the coin counter boss without deaths or dying myself, but since he runs after other players when I have full emnity they blame me and i know its the mechanic of the boss) (for example, because this happens in many LL dungeons when i duty roulette them)

if any of the low level dungeons snag me for the daily duty and I tag to help newbies not pull entire rooms of mobs, I get a lot of trolling from them. arum vale i hate for this reason, they will run around and agro other mobs, or piss on me if i only pull one mob at a time.

as per all of your lovely adevice, thank you.

i have reorganized my quick keys and even made macros for buffs and OT dps sets. I feel better knowing that I was doing the right thing the first time with provoke, flash, and over power.
i have done a lot of reading, not that i didnt do it before, but I spent hours yesterday reading forums, player issues, fixes, and warrior guides. I also have all my classes above 15 already and some above 30. I started out as a paladin and my husband realized that his scholar would be better matched with a war and asked me if i minded changing tank classes and pairing my white mage with his pld instead.

Thank you so very much.

[Ouza]

when Adds spawn behind you and immediately go after the DPS (usually also behind you ) is there a trick to getting agro off them any quicker than flash/provoke > overpower/tamahawk > heavy blade/steel cyclone?

(i use a combination of the above that have the / to gain agro depending on where my wrath is at and how far away the add is)

was doing tam tara hard today and adds kept spawning behind me and running after the DPs , i got them off her, WHEN she didnt run away.

when DPS or healer does get agro or runs ahead and gets agro, and then hauls off down a pathway far away from me, am i a bad tank for refusing to chase after them and get agro off them?

I retorted to the DPS' obscenities that their generating agro was due to their poorly timed AOE's and not watching their threat meter and not targeting my target. she called that BS... I feel I was right. i shoudlnt have to leave the main boss to pull agro off of them with the adds because if they were targeting the boss then my AOE agro moves would pull the adds off anyway. Right?

and when the adds spawn on top of a ranged DPS and they still keep their distance from me or run farther away from me, should i still leave the boss to go grab the adds? i feel that if the DPS gets adn Add spawn and they are too far for my ranged moves that it is their responsibility to run closer in so i can pull agro off them. it should not be my job (and I am not lazy for) refusing to drop my mob and run to their aid? or am i?

i feel i shouldnt run away from the main boss and mob because they will just follow me over there anyway and it will be that much harder for me to keep ago on the main group if i do.

is this what I am doing wrong?

i'm tired of the DPs putting me and my healer husband down during dungeons, it distracts from us fully concentrating on the task at hand. I am tired of the DPS trolling, if that is what it really is.

[Kyana]

when Adds spawn behind you and immediately go after the DPS (usually also behind you ) is there a trick to getting agro off them any quicker than flash/provoke > overpower/tamahawk > heavy blade/steel cyclone?

You should never have adds spawn behind you. They always spawn at the same spots, so just position yourself in a way that you will have them in front of you when they spawn.
Should you fail to position yourself you should still know where they spawn and turn soon enough to get them when they spawn.


To me it sounds like you just put too much thought into things.
Honestly, if you want to tank you either have to grow a thick skin or play with real friends who respect you.
If the things other people throw at you are too much, either avoid using DF with randoms or go with the flow of things and stay in the background.
Tanking is a thankless job.

Let's play through a couple of situations and how a normal tank would react:

1. Party members flame you for not pulling more mobs at once.
=> If you don't think they can handle it, or if there are single target DDs, ignore them.

2. Party members pull stuff on purpose.
=> Let them have all the mobs they want and don't bother with them. They will learn.

3. People won't let you tank.
=> Just switch do DD mode and let them have it. Take over if the MT dies and show them how good you are.
Never try to steal aggro from another tank, that's low.

4. You want to tank.
=> Just do it. Start as soon as everyone is gathered and buffed.
If someone tries to steal hate refer to 3.

5. The party leaves you behind as sacrifice.
=> Get ahead of them and leave them behind with the mobs if they take too long.

6. Someone yells at you because you lost hate of a mob out of a pack and couldn't get it back.
=> Set targets, if they ignore the set target, ignore them.

7. Players blame you for everything from low damage, bad healing, deaths, taking damage, not using abilities, using abilities, tanking the boss north, south, west, east or in the center up to hunger, poverty cancer and the death of their cat/dog.
=> Ignore them. As a good tank you know yourself when you messed up.

[Ouza]

thank you so very much, this is just what I needed to hear.

[Dotsusama]

I can then spend 20,000 gill repairing my iL90 gear after 5 or 6 deaths

I think we're the ones being taken on a troll tour...

[Ouza]

no, i promise.. i've been getting soo much hate.. in dungeons.. and taking the blame for so much crap.. and i just want to be a better tanks and was not sure what i was missing.

this game definitely makes use think, cant button mash here, like never winter, and still do a good job.

[Kumabear76]

What i am seeing here is that other players refuse to play as a team. I also main WAR and my wife is a SCH. But when we group up and run dungeons, we are very clear cut on how to treat certain DPS. As the tank, if you are in a 4 man dungeon, take a quick second to assess the other other players' jobs and gear. While not 100% true, you can usually figure out how your run will be right at the beginning and adjust your style accordingly. Even then, sometimes some quick communication is always a good thing. For example, if the party looks like they are extremely high iLvl and you aren't sure if you can handle big pulls, then just let them know. After the first one or two trash fights, you can get a pretty good idea on how the rest o the run will be also.

Another example, if you get a BLM & BRD in your pt, be ready for a lot of AoE damage. Don't bother marking. Grab a mob, Flash, try to get 2-3 Overpowers in, Infuriate, then Steel Cyclone. That should give you plenty of starting emnity for the mobs. From there start working on rotating your Butcher Block combo around while watching the aggro bars for any spikes. Overpower of Flash occasionally if you have to, and keep Steel Cycloning for that hate.

Other times, you get DRG's and MNK's, this is where you got to keep your eyes open. There are many DRG's and MNK's that will go balls to the wall right out of the gate and produce some stupid high numbers right at the start. Times like this, you should probably watch the first fight and see if they like attacking different mobs than you are. Start marking if they become a problem. If they continue to attack the wrong mob, let them have it. Remind them when they are either dead or near dead that the markers are there for a reason. Most DRG's and MNK's have very high wait times for roulettes, so they tend to listen.

In 8 man parties, if there is a PLD, you are likely to be the OT. this is when you simply watch your own hate. I personally keep Defiance up to have my self-healing moves (Inner Beast) available. Inner Beast is also a Buff, so it lowers your incoming damage as well from any random AoE's. Also, having a Steel Cyclone ready if adds pop up is very helpful. If you are OT though, don't use the Butcher Block Combo. I alternate between the Storm's Eye Combo, and Storm's Path Combo. Storm's Eye decreases target's slashing resistance by 10%, giving the PLD MT an extra little boost.

Provoke is your friend, believe me. If a mob goes astray, 'Voke it and IMMEDIATELY use another emnity move.

If a person in your party gets hate and runs around or away like a 'tard, that's on them. Smart DPS's or healers run at the Tank when they get hate so the tank can get it back without risking the rest of the party.

Also, if a CNJ/WHM uses the stupid water blast in a fight, or Carby/Garuda does the move that pushes a mob away, tell the offending player to stop it. Having to run after the mob and reposition it for the melee is a pain in the ass all for one little move that does minimal damage.

Most importantly, remember, if you are the MT, YOU ARE IN CHARGE. You know your survivabilty better than anyone else. Work with your healer to establish a good flow between you two. Once established, good DPS's will usually flow right in with you and you will have an excellent run.

Good luck and happy gaming!

[alimdia]

Anyone that plays a tank should be able to tell that this thread is most likely a troll one.
On the off chance that you were being serious, you said you run dungeons with your husband.
Just vote kick all the dumbasses or leave and make the DPS wait 30 mins for their queue.

For Praetorium, pull all the mobs, lure them back a bit, sprint back, put weapon back, click transporter, easy.
Or just click it at the start, If everyone is fast, nobody will die.

[Sasoriza]

This is not a Troll thread. She is my wife. I have seen issues where the other people just dps the mobs and run away. (Been in a couple of dungeons with her that i see this) My opinion is most of the people are trying to run these as quick runs. Which in some cases are fine. However if you take agro from the tank you should at least have the courtesey to run back to the tank so they can gain agro and then run back to where you were. Always Dps the mob you tank is Agroing.