Can we just have the Wrath of the Lich King Raiding Scheme?

[Zarzak]

Wouldn't you want something like this to improve the pool of skilled players to draw on? I'm not saying everyone will become instantly skilled with a tiered difficulty setting, but it would improve the player base skill set and allow for some people to progress up the skill latter rather than having to be there on patch day or forever be considered stupid and can't beat pac-man...

If they can't beat divebombs and twisters. There is literally 0 hope since "move slightly to the left" has apparently been too much for them for the past several months.

[Nel_Celestine]

If they can't beat divebombs and twisters. There is literally 0 hope since "move slightly to the left" has apparently been too much for them for the past several months.

So then why are you still posting in here if the suggestion of this topic won't impact your play? You don't want to improve the player base you can pull from, you have insulted said player base numerous times based on your own skill set and those you play with. If something like this can help improve the community and won't impact you or your static why concern yourself with it further?

[Zarzak]

So then why are you still posting in here if the suggestion of this topic won't impact your play? You don't want to improve the player base you can pull from, you have insulted said player base numerous times based on your own skill set and those you play with. If something like this can help improve the community and won't impact you or your static why concern yourself with it further?

Several people have posted numerous times how this will effect the game. And if you sit and think for about 30 seconds I'm sure you can come up with several of them.

[Nel_Celestine]

Several people have posted numerous times how this will effect the game. And if you sit and think for about 30 seconds I'm sure you can come up with several of them.

I mentioned it won't impact you, or the cutting edge of raiders. You will continue to raid at the top tier of content as it comes out regardless of how others play. If something like this was to be added and gives players a way to developt the toolset needed to reach higher end raiding, the only impact it would have on players like yourself is a larger pool of skilled people to draw on.

[Velhart]

I mentioned it won't impact you, or the cutting edge of raiders. You will continue to raid at the top tier of content as it comes out regardless of how others play. If something like this was to be added and gives players a way to developt the toolset needed to reach higher end raiding, the only impact it would have on players like yourself is a larger pool of skilled people to draw on.

Some people like to think of the player base and balance of the game as a whole and not just our own groups.

[Havenchild]

Some people like to think of the player base and balance of the game as a whole and not just our own groups.

You always hear people talk about balance sensitivity whenever the discussion of something slightly easier comes into play.

A lot of the time, these same people will be the ones to sell runs to people to take advantage of the weaklings as best as possible. There is no profit in developing the player base as a whole for these people. There are many even in this thread to admit we have some of the most unskilled players in an MMO, but yeah are against helping provide tools that could further improve this situation. I do not comprehend.

Nel is correct in saying the higher end players, will focus on the higher end content. It would not affect them in anyway, outside of adding to the pool of skilled people they can draw from, which is a benefit to the end game raiding community as a whole.

silentwindfr also stated something quite true. The curve of difficulty is quite steep. There really is no solid foundation to work off of when leveling in dungeons. The pace of lower level dungeons does not accurately build up to something like T5. T5 blows everyone away at first because there's quite literally 0 preparation for it. Not even the previous turns build up to the skill base needed for it. A well designed fight overall but something hard to overcome when you first get there.

I remember when people were crying about echo being placed in the first levels of coil because of the giant big brother hand it was giving to the people struggling through it. Funny thing is, those same so called experts rarely remove it "for the challenge". It's a large double standard that the high end community always seems to fall in.



Refusing to help the mainstream members, claiming to be elites, crying when they can't find skilled people for their raids on their servers cause the pool has vanished, a painful cycle.

[Fendred]

I think it's cumbersome to add 3 levels of raid. Especially if they keep the convention that you have to complete normal Coil to unlock Savage. It was annoying enough having to do Garuda, Garuda Hard, then Garuda Extreme. Having to do 3~5 bosses three times over? That's pretty irritating. If story mode Coil isn't required to continue on with the main story, nor required to enter normal Coil then I'd be okay with it.

TBH, the savage mode sounds like a waste of assets to me, not because of difficulty, but because the game did nothing to create a community with the organizational or social skills to raid in the first place. That can only be achieved by giving players positive social experiences throughout content requiring them to organize. We had a really positive and active raid community in the old days because everyone had to organize from day one just to get into dungeons. The difficulty of organizing people was thus rewarded in multiple ways (most importantly, victory), and strengthened the community to take on harder and harder content as the difficulty and number of people continued to rise. You learned how to make bonds, and you saw others as fellow human beings more than as a means to loot.

FFXIV:ARR in contrast did nothing to help build a community anything like that. Everything was done with strangers you never see again using ease of access tools. So it falls to the end game to make that ladder. Unfortunately the current ladder is missing way too many rungs to get people to the top without pain.

Edit: Actually, wait a sec. This game doesn't even have a ladder. We just have a stepping stool and one long jump. X.X

[Dude]

I would like to say that this game is just hurting for an expansion and one can't come soon enough. They were in such a rush, to get the game out, that the raids came out in the wrong order. It has been wonky ever since. So they really need to reset the cadence.

In the future, they can release 1-3 raids with the expatiation. Then a few more over the patches. Hopefully people can progress slowly up through them (really slow as they love to time gate drops ;-) Maybe some of the raids can slowly build the skills needed to do a SCoB type raid.

[Magis]

A lot of the time, these same people will be the ones to sell runs to people to take advantage of the weaklings as best as possible. There is no profit in developing the player base as a whole for these people. There are many even in this thread to admit we have some of the most unskilled players in an MMO, but yeah are against helping provide tools that could further improve this situation. I do not comprehend.

Source? Citation? Proof on the first part? Please pray tell how would an "easy mode" help someone get better? If you need to practice a raid, you have something just for that.... it's called that specific raid.

silentwindfr also stated something quite true. The curve of difficulty is quite steep. There really is no solid foundation to work off of when leveling in dungeons. The pace of lower level dungeons does not accurately build up to something like T5. T5 blows everyone away at first because there's quite literally 0 preparation for it. Not even the previous turns build up to the skill base needed for it. A well designed fight overall but something hard to overcome when you first get there.

The curve of difficulty is not steep. You are doing the same actions that the game taught you in the dungeons and then in T1-T4. Watch markers, do a thing. With the echo buff, all the DPS check parts have been removed so it comes down to basic mechanics. The same way T1-T4 teach you how to do T5, the whole first coil teaches you how to do T6 and so on. It's actually really neat how SE set it up.

silentwindfr
I remember when people were crying about echo being placed in the first levels of coil because of the giant big brother hand it was giving to the people struggling through it. Funny thing is, those same so called experts rarely remove it "for the challenge". It's a large double standard that the high end community always seems to fall in.

Why would people who have cleared T5 be doing T5? They are in T6 doing the current content. However, I and my FC mates do help out people in our FC who need a clear.

silentwindfr
Refusing to help the mainstream members, claiming to be elites, crying when they can't find skilled people for their raids on their servers cause the pool has vanished, a painful cycle.

Maybe Excalibur is different, but PF is full of 2nd Coil parties, not T5 parties... so I dunno who this "mainstream" is.
No one calls themselves elites unless they are world first types of people which hey, they deserve the title.
The only time I am "crying" is when some guy comes into a T6 or T7 clear party, and can't do the most basic of mechanics cause they got carried/bought their clear. And hey! That's ok on the first try, but when you refuse to listen to people much more experienced than you, or keep screwing up because you just can't do basic "jump rope" then make a learning party.

[Krr]

The curve of difficulty is not steep. You are doing the same actions that the game taught you in the dungeons and then in T1-T4. Watch markers, do a thing.

T1-T4, Hard Primals, and 4-man dungeons teach nothing now because the second you walk into these encounters at level 50, you are either overgeared for them or 7 other players are overgeared for them. You definitely don't repeat them afterwards because their loot is now worthless. A new player can literally die to the first attack these bosses throw out and get a clear from 7 other veterans doing a roulette or alt relic runs. Back in 2.1 and maybe 2.2 these encounters were challenging learning experience, but now they teach nothing. This is an extremely unfortunate result of overdoing the 'returning players need to catch up' design methodology. Because returning players log back in, have little or no experience, catch up to another red-hot iron wall when they hadn't even beaten the last one at-level, then quit again.

Maybe Excalibur is different, but PF is full of 2nd Coil parties, not T5 parties... so I dunno who this "mainstream" is.

PF users are actually a minority of the game, and Excalibur is actually considered one of the liveliest servers in the game when it comes to active SCOB pugs. I'm sure if you've actually used PF lately, how repeat failures to clear these fights even in 'farm groups' have resulted in a pretty cold cynicism in randoms toward the attitudes of other players as well. Which is, believe it or not, not the norm, for this game or many MMO's.