[Pole] Do you want to see the summoner class reworked?

[Lycia]

I think you guys are failing to read what SE has clearly stated were the intentions of SMN. Its not meant to be a Primal only class, never was. We are Arcanist who can call on the essence of the primal. We do this without use of crystals might I add. By making SMN based more on summoning a more realistic and bigger primal, or more focused on our EGI, you're kinda spitting on the lore of Eorzea. Our Summon is support, not primary focus. Perhaps if we had the ability to summon a weaker version of the primal at a high crystal cost, and for a brief period of time, then that would make more sense...but from where it stands, I feel that the character works perfectly with the intentions of the game design.

Less not forget that Scholars still have the ability to use Arcanist skills too :P

[Shougun]

I think you guys are failing to read what SE has clearly stated were the intentions of SMN. Its not meant to be a Primal only class, never was. We are Arcanist who can call on the essence of the primal. We do this without use of crystals might I add. By making SMN based more on summoning a more realistic and bigger primal, or more focused on our EGI, you're kinda spitting on the lore of Eorzea. Our Summon is support, not primary focus. Perhaps if we had the ability to summon a weaker version of the primal at a high crystal cost, and for a brief period of time, then that would make more sense...but from where it stands, I feel that the character works perfectly with the intentions of the game design.

Less not forget that Scholars still have the ability to use Arcanist skills too :P

I'd agree twisting arcanist is a bit of a lore buster but the lore of summoning -more- of a primal already exists unless it was retcon I didn't know about. Also there is nothing in the lore that says you cant become stronger and obtain greater amounts of primal essence, in fact in the story we see someone who has (though they are evil (maybe by mind influence), probably because most of the primals are evil or not interested in being pets).

And then of course there is the whole FC summoning the actual primal idea Yoshida has, and where SE said they are waiting for the story to allow that to make sense (at that point there would be even less of a reason to argue that summoners can't access more).

[Dwill]

I'd agree twisting arcanist is a bit of a lore buster but the lore of summoning -more- of a primal already exists unless it was retcon I didn't know about. Also there is nothing in the lore that says you cant become stronger and obtain greater amounts of primal essence, in fact in the story we see someone who has (though they are evil (maybe by mind influence), probably because most of the primals are evil or not interested in being pets).

And then of course there is the whole FC summoning the actual primal idea Yoshida has, and where SE said they are waiting for the story to allow that to make sense (at that point there would be even less of a reason to argue that summoners can't access more).

Yes there is something that explains it in the lore. A Primal's power level is in direct correlation with the amount of Aether amassed, more often than not via a huge amount of crystals. For our egi, it works the same. We summon them by using the essence we gained by fighting the primal as a catalyst then give they become an Aetherical Manifestation of what the primal looks in our mind, which means that they are a concentrated amount of Aether. For them to be stronger/bigger, a bigger amount of Aether would be needed which means exposure to a high amount of Aether which is a big no no due to serious side effects which includes aether sickness (poisoning).

Snip

That's already what we do. Fighting the primals imbues us with their essence, to which we transmute into the Egis.

[MercuryD]

in fact in the story we see someone who has (though they are evil (maybe by mind influence), probably because most of the primals are evil or not interested in being pets).

Can you give an example of when this happened? Because I can only think of Belias-Egi, which is a color swap of Ifrit-Egi, no real change there.

[Dwill]

Can you give an example of when this happened? Because I can only think of Belias-Egi, which is a color swap of Ifrit-Egi, no real change there.

It's funny because Tristan doesn't get to use a greater amount of essence, he's just using the essence of an Elder Primal, which is Belias in this case and Belias is totally different than Ifrit in term of look, even if Tristan only gets a recolored Ifrit-Egi.

[Shougun]

Yes there is something that explains it in the lore. A Primal's power level is in direct correlation with the amount of Aether amassed, more often than not via a huge amount of crystals. For our egi, it works the same. We summon them by using the essence we gained by fighting the primal as a catalyst then give they become an Aetherical Manifestation of what the primal looks in our mind, which means that they are a concentrated amount of Aether. For them to be stronger/bigger, a bigger amount of Aether would be needed which means exposure to a high amount of Aether which is a big no no due to serious side effects which includes aether sickness (poisoning).



That's already what we do. Fighting the primals imbues us with their essence, to which we transmute into the Egis.

Can you give an example of when this happened? Because I can only think of Belias-Egi, which is a color swap of Ifrit-Egi, no real change there.

It's funny because Tristan doesn't get to use a greater amount of essence, he's just using the essence of an Elder Primal, which is Belias in this case and Belias is totally different than Ifrit in term of look, even if Tristan only gets a recolored Ifrit-Egi.

Poisoning ones self for strength isn't an unheard of FF aspect (including unintentional poisonings we have quite a few characters lol).

Anyway if your point is to use lore to say we can't have it but then lore shows ways we can, then... obviously we can we just need to use these methods. Aether poising, finding rare allagan catalyst machines, ect ect. Lore does not prohibit change, and it doesn't limit them to a particular look (as Dwill has educated us, part of the process is our mind).

I was indeed referencing Belias-egi, who was a color change /and/ size change. I doubt we will be making pacts with Ascians anytime soon, but it shows change is possible in game (rather than just speculating on the info we have).

At this exact moment I'd have to agree with people using lore that we can't have a change right at this second (doesn't make sense in respect to lore); however, if people using lore as a end all be all... then obviously it isn't true. As change -can- make sense lore wise given quests to explain it (amassing massive amounts of crystals to poison ones self, special quest events, or technologies). If the comment is "I don't want to poison myself" then hey I respect opinions, but we are not factually limited to a certain look/size or ability set.

I don't know about other people asking for changes to SMN but in my mind this would be something introduced at the expansion, allowing new levels, story, and changes to take place that make sense.

Lore isn't summoner's limitation given time, the power given and aspect it appears in, and shouldn't be used as one.