Can we just have the Wrath of the Lich King Raiding Scheme?

[Fendred]

You mean how the first coil is now? Wait until October and the second coil will be made easier for the casuals

Reading comprehension -10. Go back and carefully reread the opening post instead of mindlessly reiterating your own presuppositions. You are totally on the other side of the hemisphere right now.

The entire point is that there are a ton of gamers who neither fit into the category of casual or hardcore who are forced to play two extremes at end game that do not fit their needs. The point of normal modes isn't to hand out stuff like CT. Its to provide the same challenges to a group of people as the current raids, only slightly tuned down so they can be done in a more reasonable time frame.

And before you respond to this post, go back and read. Don't just read this and respond. Read the opening post first.

[silentwindfr]

no, i'm talking of the whole idea to split the content in two iteration, meaning 2 times more work.
in vanillia often it did take time for beat a content, i still remember the few month for pass razorgore, but it's part of learning, indeed with a game with DF you can't do this. and that the whole trouble of the actual raid, outside the DDR-style. Why content like ZG or Zul Aman was hard but still doable without spend tons of days at train for know every pattern possible of a fight, Karazhan was the same, indeed the fight was hard, but if the player was becoming better it was possible to pass this content without have a static.

that the whole trouble of the modern raiding, people want to do everything in static and the Dev do raiding with this in mind. but they do forget to train player, the dungeon that normally are used for train player are too easy, leading to player to not have the training enough nor the capacity for really face hard content. then, what they have as solution? make DDR content, because it's easy, it don't ask a lot of skill as player for beat this sort of content, only memorize a pattern and execute it.

the real solution it's to stop to put Raiding as the only challenging content! we need more difficult content at 4 for train, we need to have dungeon that will be as hard as raid to be beaten, more important we need content outside raid/dungeon that will recquire the gears from this place. i did hope a lot that Hunt will be a really good feature for this, sadly SE don't want to frustrate player that think that raid it's everything into a mmorpg. the sand/oil was create for this reason too, for give a carrot that raider will have for complet this.

you talk of Wrath of lich king, but admit it, often we did the hard content only for the challenge or for stupid reason like the horse on Nerthas. but here, people need to have the best stuff from raid or they are crying. it's why i think it's not a good idea to split the raid in 2 iteration, but to balance it and offer content outside raid that will train player by being harder and challenging. i prefer they begin to stop to treated player like kids and treat us like player.

ps: for make it short, i think that the trouble lie in the player and the way the Dev try to accomodate the game for them. i will never say it enough, base a game on the hardcore it's a bad idea, you want an example? Aq40 and Naxx 60 from WoW, they was made with hardcore in mind, leading in some extreme situation like the 1000po farm for one night of raid for aq40 or the fact that only 2-6% of the whole community did try naxx 60. leading them to reuse the whole raid at lich king.
i think they don't need to make extremely hard content, but content that will stay challenging not matter how many time you did beat it, because actually, when a static did beat a content in FF14, 90% of the time they will beat it the other time after.

[TheRogueX]

Please also consider the fact that by the time Wrath of the Lich King had come around, addons providing clear indications of boss abilities being activated were mandatory in virtually all raid groups. I'm not exaggerating at all when I say that. Addons that gave notifications of boss mechanics were mandatory for raiding. That kind of says something about what the general audience feels about having to constantly look at the boss's health bar for a cast bar to appear. Individual players can say what they will, claiming that they like to watch for cast bars, but its pretty obvious from how prolific addons of that type are in the genre that most people find it incredibly unpleasant.

LOL, learn to watch the health bar. People use the notification addons because they're lazy. Hell, back when I first started playing MMOs, there was no such thing as a cast bar. You had to actually watch the boss itself to know when certain things were going to happen. Lazy, lazy people.

[silentwindfr]

LOL, learn to watch the health bar. People use the notification addons because they're lazy. Hell, back when I first started playing MMOs, there was no such thing as a cast bar. You had to actually watch the boss itself to know when certain things were going to happen. Lazy, lazy people.

when i did start play, the raid was not as important as it's treated now, the mmorpg was offering different experience for different type of player, the trouble it's really the fact that everybody think that the raid is the only content that can offer challenge. leading to the genre getting less and less deep.

[Fendred]

LOL, learn to watch the health bar. People use the notification addons because they're lazy. Hell, back when I first started playing MMOs, there was no such thing as a cast bar. You had to actually watch the boss itself to know when certain things were going to happen. Lazy, lazy people.

Actually, it freed us up to enjoy the battlefield more and watch the cool fireworks instead of focusing almost entirely on one single place on the screen. You might find it incredibly stimulating, but since every raid group in existence used deadly boss mods back in the day I think you are only speaking for yourself and perhaps a staunch few who actually enjoy doing that.

[Deviant1]

Reading comprehension -10. Go back and carefully reread the opening post instead of mindlessly reiterating your own presuppositions. You are totally on the other side of the hemisphere right now.

My reading comprehension is pretty good actually and it allows me to read between the lines. They just introduced the 'savage' mode of coil, that would make the current second turn 'normal' and the 'savage' mode the 'hard mode'. What you want is an 'Easy' mode. That is a mode that is lower in difficulty then what was originally released.

The entire point is that there are a ton of gamers who neither fit into the category of casual or hardcore who are forced to play two extremes at end game that do not fit their needs.

It takes about an hour or two to learn the entire fight, and once learned you should be able to farm the fight regularily. It does take longer to learn the job or jobs you go to this on.

Also when the next stage of coil is released, you will get a reduced difficulty thanks to: Echo, no lockouts, & DF access. The echo will make up for the under geared/skilled a bit. The removal of lockouts will let people who know the fight can help others (or at least dilute the 'you & 7 gimp syndrome') and DF will let you practice on other jobs a bit easier.

[Whiteprincess]

I would love this as well. Coming from wow i'm used to getting to play end game content with a normal ver. then a hard version. It allowed my guild to be able to enjoy the content, at a nice pace... from normal to hard modes. Sure hardcore would say why.... but i would say why upgrade when everything is a downgrade in a few months... why? because we play the game for fun.... at least i do. Lets face it though all of CoB is easy... its the other players and instant death mechanics that make it hard atm lol.

[ValkyrieL]

What some of you need to realize is that to do end-game you NEED a static. I came to this realization while playing TERA who's boss (Shandra Manaya) mechanics revolve around 1shot/party wipes. With a static you will initially wipe but you will learn/progress till everything just becomes an impulse/faceroll. I know that getting a static can be difficult but you need to put alot of effort into finding one. If end game could be done with DF and PF(includes new/unskill players everytime you set one up) than a static party would absolutely faceroll the content and probably quit as the difficulty to keep them is not there.

[Fendred]

My reading comprehension is pretty good actually and it allows me to read between the lines. They just introduced the 'savage' mode of coil, that would make the current second turn 'normal' and the 'savage' mode the 'hard mode'. What you want is an 'Easy' mode. That is a mode that is lower in difficulty then what was originally released.

No, you really aren't getting it. If it helps, I made several posts responding to other people that might explain things a little better. I think there is one on page 2 that might help clarify things a bit. But no, if you are thinking of what is currently in the game as equivalent to "normal mode" and the new savage mode being "heroic mode," you did not comprehend my post in the slightest. You are not "reading between the lines." You are just rehearsing the same presuppositions that you started with, and as a result your points hold no merit to the conversation here.

Edit: And on the whole "all the fights can be learned in an hour or two" comment. Right, that's why some teams are taking multiple weeks of their raid schedule before they get through turn 6. Also, the people in question are ready and willing to do the raid content when it is introduced. Medium core players ARE NOT casual gamers, and the things Yoshida is putting into the game for casuals does not apply to their particular group.

[Zileth]

Not in the slightest.

Go argue with the people who made Wrath of the Lich King then. They made awesome raiding content that wiped people repeatedly, forced them to strategize, but still managed to make a whole lot of people happy. The subscription numbers on WoW at that time do not lie.

Also, I don't think you noticed but... nothing being suggested here would damage your raiding in the least. The current coil would be preserved as heroic mode, there would still be a savage mode, and you get unique armor skins, easter egg bosses, and slightly higher ilvl than those that do the normal mode. So what's the point of arguing against a suggestion that gives you all the stuff you want and more?

LOL Sorry but WoW is a casual base game that tosses some hardcore stuff here and there.... wonder why these "hardcore" gamers burn through WoW's stuff in a few days

Also WoW subs is counted world wide and reason it was so successful is due to it capitalizing on casuals then the "hardcore" only crowed. Yes it had good mechanics and what not but stop fooling yourself and acting like this is the only reason WoW did so well. Remember WoW would flopped and gone F2P if it just released and was only V-WoW.......... Hell most likey if WoW released now with the Linch King updated it most likely would of flopped