Can we just have the Wrath of the Lich King Raiding Scheme?

[Dijana]

This isn't WoW, and it isn't Final Fantasy either. I wish all the wow fanbois would go back, take Yoshi with you and then perhaps the next producer can recreate an actual unique game.

There's a reason that everything is called a wow clone you know, and why it's remained so popular after 10 years. I played WoW casually and enjoyed it, not my favourite game out there but it did a lot right. Really, I wish all the immature kids who think they're being edgy for hating on WoW would just leave. Who cares if 14 has similarities to another game that did a system well. I had more fun in XI than WoW, but I vastly prefer some of the systems 14 seems to be taking from wow than from XI. Most games have duty finders in some form like wow, they don't expect you to stand around in a main city for hours on end shouting for 20+ people

Not to mention, 14 1.0 was supposed to be unique. You arent going to get something that hasnt been done already. Tanaka wanted to make a game that wasnt like anything else, instead we were left with something that didnt work and had barely any content until Yoshi came along

[Titor]

Wait until October and the second coil will be made easier for the casuals.

I hate this.

Hate hate hate this.

I am not a casual, not in the slightest. I know the ins and the outs of the game, and research the fights before I do them, then join learning groups until I am confident to join a clear party.

However, due to my erratic schedule it is impossible for me to get into a static, and a majority of pugs are not as well organized as a static is, and does not down content really well. Between rage-quitters, people lying about knowing a fight when they do not, or just generally people slacking it is so hard to get a clear.

Back in Wrath on WoW I was able to get into pug groups for normal mode raid content weekly. I was able to down it weekly. I was able to get gear weekly. By the end of Wrath, I had my whole set of normal mode raid gear, and I felt good. I accomplished something, worked hard, got with other people, made some mistakes, made some wipes, but ultimately got through the content. Even without voice chat, not even listening.

Here I am trying to do t6 as a healer. It is EXTREMELY hard to do without voice chat. Even harder to do without addons. Among keeping track of vines, blighted, yellow mark, and honey, my eyes are twitching constantly around the entire screen. It is not very fun, but I do want to get the gear and progress, so I keep bashing my head against that plant.

And I have to do this EVERY TIME too. So far, I have done about 30 runs of it in various PUG groups. In EVERY SINGLE RUN someone messes up. I have messed up about 2 times out of these runs (not very high imo) and the rest of the time it is on the pugs. I start losing attention after a while, and I think I might just be done with it.

By no means am I casual. I just have an erratic schedule, and requiring that much focus for such a long time from the general population is a pretty high request.

[Xairos]

I don't want steamrolled content, and I dont want to pay people who are capable just to let me into their group to get a win. Some things could be made easier, rather than ilvl reqs, things like an extra couple seconds on things that have to be done in x amount of time, more markers, etc. Although it's nice we have ways to gear up without doing coil, some of it takes so soul-crushingly long it's just a burnout, especially when so much is reliant on RNG (Im still only 4/12 atma after grinding fates since it came out)

This is the message the thread need to mostly send to the Community team and on to the Devs. Give tangible ways to modify the system we are working with. Dont just use WoW as a template (effectively telling the community to go research that game). This is our game, so lets put our heads (avatars lol) together to make some sort of a middle ground for mid-tier raiding.

[Dijana]

Between rage-quitters, people lying about knowing a fight when they do not, or just generally people slacking it is so hard to get a clear.

The sad thing is people needing to lie about knowing the fight because of exactly this hardcore mentality some people are already exhibiting in the thread already. After only a week or two the majority of groups on PF all demand you have a previous win, making it so the people that want to progress but werent in the first wave or an endgame FC have a very hard time trying to get into groups.

Then you come across the rare learning groups in PF that fill up, there quite often seems to be someone in there who expects a win regardless of what the group was going in for. My LS was doing a levi ex learning party some time ago when our other healer had to leave so we put up in PF and got someone who already cleared with their endgame FC joining. He constantly berated people for messing up, telling me I should play with keyboard instead of gamepad after I explained to him I have a physical reason to play with it, all while actually doing pretty bad himself (spent more time talking than healing)

Like I said, it seems very hard to progress if you werent in the first wave or a dedicated endgame FC

[Krr]

I see. Basically to make that work here, using current Second Coil (normal) as a template would be just tune it down another few steps and keep Savage (Heroic) as is. Then apply the appropriate rewards, no?

Pretty much. The idea would be that 'regular' Coil would have just enough room for error error that one or two randoms in a pug slipping up would be punishing but recoverable (with, of course, skill and focus, and maybe a bit of extra gear) while 'Savage' Coil would have similar mechanics but require pitch-perfect execution on them. You'd get, say, i105 'high allagan' from the regular Coil and i105 upgrade materials, and i110...I dunno. 'Supreme Deathbeast Allagan' from the Savage Coil. The i110 rewards would be exclusive, but in catch up patches the i105 rewards (or equivalents) might get proliferated downwards.

And maybe, Savage Coil would have a special unique boss at the end who's some kind of mystical starbeast from space that everyone wipes on constantly that's not available in normal coil.

[Exstal]

"Deathbeast Allagan"

I want this.

Also extra boss in Savage would be pretty damn awesome. Something for people to work on/towards.

[silentwindfr]

the trouble is not make the raid easier, but better. right now we have a sort of DDR raid, if you fail the step you die. is not raiding, we are not fighting a boss we are knowing everything he will do (normal) but we can even tell you when it will happend!

another point, why some fight are gate that are soo much trouble? because they have a huge number of phase. is not hard to make intense fight that don't relly on having 5-8 phase different with different pattern. more bad, it make the boss look like idiot. a bit like ultima arma that wait to be almost dead for use him best attack that can destroy a whole base. instead he try to hit us with small beam. *le sighs*

Wrath of Lich King raid was bad, in many way, indeed it did allows player to try raiding, when it was better to make raiding more intelligent in them mechanic and more progressive into the difficulty. we need to learn stuff from fight, and this stuff must be used sooner or later in another fight, they need to force player to train themself and learn from the previous fight.

i will never say it enough, DDR-Raiding is not Raiding! raiding will ask you to play with your team, not along them. if a fight allows you to beat it because you do the exact pattern at the exact moment for pass it, it's not a good fight. it kill the replayability of the content, add some variable in the fight, be less hard on the error and the player will have more fun while still have hard time to pass boss.

believe me, get ride of the DDR-style of the raid and more people will advance. not because it will be easier, but because not everybody want to be a robot.

[Krr]

Also extra boss in Savage would be pretty damn awesome. Something for people to work on/towards.

Oh yeah, I forgot. And every time you kill the extra boss he drops an item that starts a quest that makes an NPC yell your name in Revenant's Toll, just to rub it in everyone else's face how awesome you (and the other 7 people who turned in) are. Or he drops materials that turn into a BiS weapon and linking it in chat eventually becomes a meme because the weapon is now outdated and not as important as it used to be but waving it around made you a Cool Top Percent Raider back in the day.

[Chiramu]

My gil bank account says hi.

No one with pride the OP should have said.

[Fendred]

Wrath of Lich King raid was bad, in many way, indeed it did allows player to try raiding, when it was better to make raiding more intelligent in them mechanic and more progressive into the difficulty. we need to learn stuff from fight, and this stuff must be used sooner or later in another fight, they need to force player to train themself and learn from the previous fight.

i will never say it enough, DDR-Raiding is not Raiding! ...

Raid Finder wasn't introduced until Mists of Panderia... that's two expansions later. Normal modes were nothing like Raid finder in content and you still had to form a group yourself. Normal modes also had plenty of strategy involved. Nax had a ton of boss fights with interesting mechanics to deal with. Perhaps you are talking about the Chinese localization of the game?