Is dying reason to be votekicked ?

[Risvertasashi]

Precisely. The personal opinions of players demanding that others 'pull their weight' even in this very thread is not relevant. Public opinion on what the vote dismiss system should be used for, as a whole, is not relevant. Vote-dismissing someone due to inability is not permitted by the rules as written and stated. Whether or not it is moral to you or your group is irrelevant; the system permits you to file a report and have a GM review the situation.

The ToS is not a democracy. The ToS will be interpreted as the GMs as they see fit and necessary for a situation at hand.

From first and third hand experience, though, SE won't do a thing unless it's clearly griefy. Like kicking just before opening a loot chest...

There's been screenshots around of GMs responding that they don't punish kicking for "differences in play styles".

[KingOfAbyss]

In my opinion if you are constantly dying, you are not pulling your weight in the party. You are not adding adequate dps/heals/lolmeatshield enough and other people are carrying you because you can't stay alive long enough to be of any use = a kick. You aren't worth the space you are occupying in that party at that point. Your detriment is unnecessary, unneeded, and unwanted. Yes, you will be kicked and you should practically expect to be kicked if you are being a waste of space. At this point you are only slightly better than someone who is afk or has permanently disconnected.

Wow.. I just hope the guy won't hang himself after reading your post.

It's a.. GAME. Kick the Healers if you die constantly, there aren't pulling their weight. /sigh

Come on wake up guys. Within the party if someone is dying, perhaps you can examine, asking some questions, perhaps you know.. helping him to become better?

oh wait.. nobody's got time for that, an S-Rank just spawned..

Lucky for you OP, with this patch, you will be able to form your own 24-man alliance with decent people that will hopefully let you learn and better yourself.

This game it's not: you either top it, or quit. There will always be better people than you, and worse. Just like in real life.

They still play the game, giving their best shot (No one really wants to die but hey guess what: it happens, otherwise raise and resurrection wouldn't be on our bars.)

So yeah, find decent players (not skillfully in the game only, but ones with "skills" outside games) that will make your game time fun.

Just like PK bars that would turn our names in red, it would be nice to see the red names of [...] or those that are using votekick like it's a fun button to mash.)

[Risvertasashi]

Kick the Healers if you die constantly, there aren't pulling their weight. /sigh

Come on wake up guys. Within the party if someone is dying, perhaps you can examine, asking some questions, perhaps you know.. helping him to become better?

It's very nice when someone's receptive to advice and willing to learn, yes^^

Problem is, too many people blame others. Healers, tanks, other DPS... and trying to give them tips just brings out the hostility.

OP, like you, chose to blame the first though.

My honest advice if the OP is still reading though: Don't sweat the vote kick too much. It happens, both justified and unjustified. I'd recommend maybe watching a video of ST fights and having a friend who plays the same class come along and give you advice on specifics of surviving/performing well on your class.

[Krr]

From first and third hand experience, though, SE won't do a thing unless it's clearly griefy. Like kicking just before opening a loot chest...

There's been screenshots around of GMs responding that they don't punish kicking for "differences in play styles".

Admittedly - I've had contrary first-hand experience of GMs taking votekick abuse very seriously and pretty stern assurances that the offending player would be dealt with. That said - I don't deny experiences to the contrary. Ultimately, there's no penalty for filing a report in good faith, so I would encourage doing so when in doubt. The best we can do - at least from where I'm sitting - is to ensure that abusive behavior reaches the people assigned to dealing with it.

("Differences in playstyles" sounds like corporate babble for either "we don't want to do our jobs" or "we're trying to do our jobs but we can't make guarantees that anything will happen, because we can only officially act on 'play disruption'." That said, I would be very interested in a GM response as to what they define as a "difference in playstyle" and how it is distinct from "abuse".)

Edit in response to what's below me cuz I don't like excessive multiposting:

And receive either

"Don't tell me how to play my class"

or either

"I don't care"

or

"Lol this is [insert instance name] who cares?"

Remember that clause about refusal to play one's role and work with the party in good faith? A player saying things like that generally constitutes a refusal.

[Alukah]

Come on wake up guys. Within the party if someone is dying, perhaps you can examine, asking some questions, perhaps you know.. helping him to become better?

And receive either

"Don't tell me how to play my class"

or

"I don't care"

or

"Lol this is [insert instance name] who cares?"

[Kazumac]

Think about why you died consistently. If it was only you dying... it probably want the healers fault, you just need more awareness of the fight mechanics. Learn from that and queue up again. It isn't worth your mental energy to get upset over the rightness or wrongness of the group to kick you (report if you think it truly was harassment).

Without being there I don't think any of us will be able to really give you an accurate opinion on if the kick was justified or not. Just glean something useful from it and move on. If all the damage you took was damage you truly couldn't avoid or mitigate... Then it might be the healer's fault but typically there is something a player could have improved upon.

[Kazumac]

Come on wake up guys. Within the party if someone is dying, perhaps you can examine, asking some questions, perhaps you know.. helping him to become better?

/sigh more often than not it falls on dead ears. I still try though because sometimes you get someone who responds but... It seems futile most times. I don't kick the person but either stay if I think the PT can carry or leave the group and remove myself from the situation.

[KingOfAbyss]

It's very nice when someone's receptive to advice and willing to learn, yes^^

Problem is, too many people blame others. Healers, tanks, other DPS... and trying to give them tips just brings out the hostility.

OP, like you, chose to blame the first though.

My honest advice if the OP is still reading though: Don't sweat the vote kick too much. It happens, both justified and unjustified. I'd recommend maybe watching a video of ST fights and having a friend who plays the same class come along and give you advice on specifics of surviving/performing well on your class.

Totally agree with you.

If you see the guy's constantly dying, and you try to help, even if told nicely: he then replies: don't teach me how to play.. o.O

Well then even I have to admit that some never learn lessons in life until a punch is going through their face.

At least make the effort to try to help; that was my point.

Some will just look at you like retards (don't they have buttons to mash anyway?) and then if you forgot to add one skill to a rotation: kick. lololol

*trust me, I hate leeches as much as everyone - but circumstances could happen out of your control, you had to pee before and then all you see is a yellow screen in front of you, and the mobs are yellow as starters, so you think they are all Ninja's and you die 'cause they are sooo hot.

Then if you asked them if everything is ok, and you get a yes? And they still seems like trolling or dying.. hmm..

[Risvertasashi]

("Differences in playstyles" sounds like corporate babble for either "we don't want to do our jobs" or "we're trying to do our jobs but we can't make guarantees that anything will happen, because we can only officially act on 'play disruption'." That said, I would be very interested in a GM response as to what they define as a "difference in playstyle" and how it is distinct from "abuse".)

Well, obviously I'm not a GM, but from what I've seen on other threads around this issue--typically players get this response if they were kicked for watching cutscenes or spiritbonding or speedrunning (when the rest of the party doesn't want to), and I've heard via the grapevine it can happen for a few other things as well. I don't really agree with it in all those cases but... *shrug*

At least make the effort to try to help; that was my point.

Some will just look at you like retards (don't they have buttons to mash anyway?) and then if you forgot to add one skill to a rotation: kick. lololol

Ok yeah, I'll 100% agree with you on trying to teach first.