Was Coil 2 and Ramuh extreme over tune?

[Krr]

I will continue to disagree with the assertion that brand new 50s with no prior experience in raiding who are skyrocketed to i90+ should be immediately thrust into un-puggable, instant death encounters and that "community resources" will help them do anything but stress out and quit when faced with certain fights as their first "real deal" encounters, like Twintania. After all, isn't a common social problem in the MMO community a divide between elitist progression raiders and those who just want to play an enjoyable game with their friends? It results in alienating, materialistic behavior, even among close groups - because in these stressful, binary, endgame fights, trying to tutor along a player who won't even be in your core group becomes stressful and unfun.

Even close-knit, mid-size FCs have this problem frequently, IME - a group of elite players leaving others in the dust, because the modern encounter design doesn't encourage learning and helping, merely succeeding, and that game design actively puts stress on the social bonds players try to form.

The progression curve might've been great in 2.1 and even into 2.2, but if you've played in recent months it's actually been arising as a pretty serious problem.

A big part of an MMO is its community - and this one proves harsh, alienating, and unfriendly to those who aren't already at the absolute top percent of their game. Good game design won't fix that by itself, but it can alleviate and change player behavior on a total whim - just look at hunts on various servers.

[Edenholt]

snip

So, you're telling me that this casual game, which YoshiP himself admit he is keeping as easy as possible to not scare new players away, is too complicated for the social/casual player?
Look, my FC is composed of 8 players, my static, we have fun together, we help each other with everything, from crafting to tactics. Don't blame the game because people are mean, because they are the same everywhere. The game have a handful of encounters that require coordination and commitiment, the hardest content in the game. It require you to improve and learn from your and the next guy's mistakes. People have tons of trouble people they wanna join together with strangers and expect to beat the end game in the first night. I'm yet to see a static complaining about it. What I see if people getting excited and really happy when they manage to beat what was meant to be a challange from the developers to the community.

[Krr]

So, you're telling me that this casual game, which YoshiP himself admit he is keeping as easy as possible to not scare new players away, is too complicated for the social/casual player?

No, I'm telling you this casual game has almost no relevant content left for the actual casual playerbase, who are now forced to do hardcore content nearly the second they hit 50.

Don't you find it ironic, to call a game's content casual in one breath, and then say that the only ones who aren't complaining about what's currently available are the ones who schedule activities with 7 other people in a video game at least once a week every week in advance?

The game is too easy for statics, yet the stigma of being new in a pick-up group in 90% of the content anyone is doing at 50 leads to party finder groups making the solo queue for crap like dota look welcoming. That's a pretty major design flaw for a 'casual game,' isn't it?

I blame the game not for people 'being mean', but because being unwelcoming and toxic has been made an acceptable social norm by its design. There's a difference.

This was much, much less of a problem when the entire community wasn't overgeared for entry-level 50 content. Mostly because people had something to do at their gear level that wasn't 1hko jump rope fights. Now, you're instantly at the gear level where you're expected to be doing primarily those, even if you just started playing a month ago.

[Ellatrix]

Storymode fights are tuned to be cleared in 1-3 attempts. Endgame content is not because... it's endgame and not storymode. It isn't a stopgap to "keep people from beating everything". Rather, the point is to make it rewarding to conquer.

If you don't like dying, don't do endgame. If you want to do endgame, work on self improvement and finding people who also want to put forth a genuine effort. I met many of my current friends working on the 2.1 extreme primals when they first came out.

[stephenjd3]

there are 4 bosses in this entire game, for End game players, they are tuned fairly.

Casual gamers have everything else this game offers. ST/CT, all the dungeons, sightseeing, chocobo lvling, minion hunting, extremes, levi, mog, atma, animus +, Hunts alllllll the HUNTS, hell a casual gamer never needs to step food in SCOB to become full i110

[ispano]

there are 4 bosses in this entire game, for End game players, they are tuned fairly.

Casual gamers have everything else this game offers. ST/CT, all the dungeons, sightseeing, chocobo lvling, minion hunting, extremes, levi, mog, atma, animus +, Hunts alllllll the HUNTS, hell a casual gamer never needs to step food in SCOB to become full i110

Actually, they do, sort of. Without that second i110 ring, you only hit 109. Which seemingly means a lot to some people since someone even made a thread about it.

[Barimu]

there are 4 bosses in this entire game, for End game players, they are tuned fairly.

Casual gamers have everything else this game offers. ST/CT, all the dungeons, sightseeing, chocobo lvling, minion hunting, extremes, levi, mog, atma, animus +, Hunts alllllll the HUNTS, hell a casual gamer never needs to step food in SCOB to become full i110

No no there are not 4 bosses. Turn 9 is the only boss for end game players, turns 6-8 are a complete joke

[Colt47]

Storymode fights are tuned to be cleared in 1-3 attempts. Endgame content is not because... it's endgame and not storymode. It isn't a stopgap to "keep people from beating everything". Rather, the point is to make it rewarding to conquer.

If you don't like dying, don't do endgame. If you want to do endgame, work on self improvement and finding people who also want to put forth a genuine effort. I met many of my current friends working on the 2.1 extreme primals when they first came out.

Actually it is designed with the intent to keep people from beating all of it. That is why there is a difficulty curve! They basically don't want the majority of people to reach what is known as an exit condition, which is the point where you mentally just go "I've beaten it all the way and there's nothing left, time to go do something else." If there is at least one thing left to do, then hypothetically they prevent said exit condition.

[saeedaisspecial]

No, I'm telling you this casual game has almost no relevant content left for the actual casual playerbase, who are now forced to do hardcore content nearly the second they hit 50.

Don't you find it ironic, to call a game's content casual in one breath, and then say that the only ones who aren't complaining about what's currently available are the ones who schedule activities with 7 other people in a video game at least once a week every week in advance?

The game is too easy for statics, yet the stigma of being new in a pick-up group in 90% of the content anyone is doing at 50 leads to party finder groups making the solo queue for crap like dota look welcoming. That's a pretty major design flaw for a 'casual game,' isn't it?

I blame the game not for people 'being mean', but because being unwelcoming and toxic has been made an acceptable social norm by its design. There's a difference.

This was much, much less of a problem when the entire community wasn't overgeared for entry-level 50 content. Mostly because people had something to do at their gear level that wasn't 1hko jump rope fights. Now, you're instantly at the gear level where you're expected to be doing primarily those, even if you just started playing a month ago.

Crystal Tower is bullshit.
Binary Win/Lose conditions like Acheron's pads that require meta gaming knowledge are absolutely ridiculous for a person's first step into raiding!
How was I supposed to know that if we didn't DPS the Vassago's fast enough the bomb in the middle explodes?
What do you mean if a group wipes in Atomos the entire raid wipes?
What?! If Garuda's stones are all gone we wipe?! If Ifrit's Nails aren't killed we wipe?! I SHOULD BE ABLE TO RECOVER NO MATTER WHAT.
Casual content shouldn't make me lose!