SE's most difinitive statement yet on parsers

[Makado]

I think we should be allowed some sort of instanced zone with a dummy where we are allowed to go in solo and damage it, and have it parse your DPS. Since it would only be you there you wouldn't have to worry about others seeing it and it would also allow people to fine tune their rotations in private.

[Elven]

And I would suggest that you are perhaps too ignorant to realise that it's not quite as black and white as you think it is.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here are you saying SE is happy that someone is data mining their game to look for any advantage to beat the new content in a few days. Because as it stands I really am starting to wonder about world first clears and you're promoting these FC to come under scrutiny.

[Krr]

It's so nice of you to tell us what SE really thinks and wants.

Pot, meet kettle.

Keep your crusades against cheaters going, I guess. It's not going to stop the world first FCs from pulling off world firsts, meters or not.

[Mcshiggs]

Pot, meet kettle.

Not sure if you understand what that phrase means, the person I was responding to is some how psychically linked to everyone at SE because she can tell us what they are thinking, I simply give examples of what SE has put out there, you see the difference, my statements are based on actual real statements SE has made, hers are made up in some part of her head so she can justify cheating, not really the same thing.

[MeiUshu]

People are capable of being selective and rude with or without parsers.

People who don't like parsers are just bad players that don't want others to be shown factual data proving they're bad... Go ahead and toss excuses at this statement, it's the truth and you know it hahaha.

the question is more are you implying that is normal to use something that is *forbidden* by rules to use it to shame people publically (which is also against ToS) ? you are saying that is exactly what parsers are used for right?...well that is exactly why they shouldnt be allowed and why people should be banned for the reason you just stated, aka using an external tool to demean, berate and insult another player that is maybe (what do you know about it eh?) still learning how to go about and MAYBE wants to learn at his own pace without having some uneducated game addict throwing at his face how dumb he may appear (for now) because of his DPS or what not

Just me though

Mei

[Krr]

the person I was responding to is some how psychically linked to everyone at SE because she can tell us what they are thinking,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-WXYg-S05U#t=367 Is this mind-reading? An official interview with the game's director?

In the interview, parsers are clearly laid out as a different and more complex issue than explicit cheats such as botting and hacking programs, and that their impact on gameplay is marginal enough to not warrant a major crackdown, and that, unofficially, they simply hope that players show discretion with the use of these tools as to affecting their public behavior. So far, no other statement from the director has contradicted this "official legal statements from the company are not necessarily moral or social condemnations of player behavior" attitude.

[MeiUshu]

You completely missed the point and read that in a way that was unintended. Twisting my words doesn't help your case. You're completely insane if you think people are loosing out on some skill when it comes to reading that incredibly difficult to read log. It's only useful when it comes to knowing what exactly killed someone and for how much damage. Otherwise it's useless. You aren't going to skim it and have an idea of how much damage a player is doing at all. It's not humanly possible to do that.

As for Elven and your posts. I disagree with you whole heartedly. You have made zero attempts to understand this from the position others are trying to discuss it from. The only leg you have to stand on is "it's not in the game so it's bad" and that completely ignores the entire discussion about the pros and cons. If that's really your point then say it and walk away. We got it. Coming back every other post to reinforce that extremely simple position isn't doing anything helpful.

Many of us here have acknowledge that third party tools like this exist and nothing you say or anyone says here will ever change that simple fact. In addition to that fact is that many people do not use those tools. This creates a blatantly uneven playing field that leaves ps3/ps4 users the most out of luck. This situation is bad and needs to be remedied. An official in game solution of some kind (I'm not saying full on parser here btw) would go a long way to evening that playing field. This is a problem that needs addressed, and simply having SE say it's against the ToS is not enough to fix it.

I didnt twistd AT ALL your words, I offered a way to use in-game features to allow you to better yourself.....you are the one that said, in a nutshell, that parsers give you all you require and allows you to pinpoint who is good or bad, this doesnt require an effort from you which rightly so prompted my answer that you want all easy handed over to you. All I said is, learn to read a log, hard as it is, learn to INTERPRETE a log analyze your logs, to understand whre the real problem is, it requires WORK from you, visibly you are interested in it but only to reach the end of the game as fast as possible which is alos what I said.. where I twisted your words is beyond me...but if you say so must be true right ? same as you saying is perfectly ok to use a parser to diminish, insult demean and shame others because of their low performance, maybe is the new generation of gamers. As I have said also, technically I am not against it, but this tool isnt usef the way it should be, which is why it shouldnt be allowed and people sanctionned isnt a bad thing.

You know, you dont have to agree with me, is perfectly fine with me, so far though you put up blinders so that you only see what good it can bring, but alas, the parsers DONT bring any good at all..it brings out of people the bad. I also am not too sure I like the idea of someone reading my *logs* so to speak on my computer...but that is another story.

It remains, parsers users want all easy, want perfection and everything right there and then they dont *analyze* who they have in their group, they dont take into consideration everything they only look at numbers...and like in a bookkeeping numbers without interpretation are just dead numbers.

Just me though

Mei (out of this discussion that brings nowhere)

[Mcshiggs]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-WXYg-S05U#t=367 Is this mind-reading? An official interview with the game's director?
.

What your buddy said here

AThe current status quo is precisely what SE want, the average player has zero need for a parser and keeping it that way is a good thing to help curb inter player abuse. But the top tier of content for the hardcore players is tuned around the assumption that they are doing the kind of dps that can only be achieved through info devised from parser output.

Yoshida mentions nothing about top tier content being developed with players using parsers in mind, she made this part up. What I got from the interview, parsers are against the rules, that is the official stance, if you use one and do something that gets you caught, action can be taken on your account, if you are contacted by someone because of this, it's not going to be Yoshida, it will be a GM, and I doubt quoting an interview he did where he made it a point to say the official statement was they are against ToS won't help you get a lesser punishment. He said he understands that PC players want to use them because they are used to them, but to develop content around requiring your dps to do damage that can only be attained from parsers would be kind of a kick to goody sac to the PS3/4 players.

Of course if someone is hacking, or doing something like Yoshida said that hacks to help them get gil, they are going to make it a point to go after that. He also said that if you use a parser be careful and don't give them a reason to investigate you, because in the end, they are against ToS. If you get pulled over for going 5 mph over the speed limit and the cop let's you off with a warning, it doesn't mean you weren't speeding, you were still breaking the rules.

[Gormogon]

You are basically arguing with yourself now

That's basically all they can do. They can't admit the real reason why they desire it. Instead they prefer to be in this vicious repetitive cycle where they claim nothing can be done in-game without its existence, in which the claim itself is baffling.

If they would simply admit to needing this 3rd party tool for the sake of it just being a quality of life thing then they would have less trouble getting their point across to the dev team and in turn be taken more seriously.

Yet they prefer that vicious cycle because they try and rationalize the justification of belitting players that you can see all thread long. That alone already defeats the purpose since it shows how the pro parser side is easily swayed into bad/shaddy behavior that SE is trying to prevent and/or keep at a minimum.

[Krr]

That's basically all they can do.

Given that this thread is now an echo chamber for the irrational who can't handle being shown counter-evidence and instead want to engage in reactionary drivel, yeah, it's pretty pointless for anyone forward-thinking or capable of grasping material realities beyond their insane, made-up scenarios to post in it.

With that point in mind, I guess I've made a good argument for myself to go to bed, and keep an eye out for the player names of several people who've taken frighteningly abusive and manipulative mindsets toward other players in response to criticism of their play in case they transfer to my server or show up in my DF. I will play with seven parser-abusing outlaws willing to tell me how well I'm doing over seven blind fools who rage on a forum and hurl baseless moral insults over the crime that someone once called their DPS low.

If a player genuinely abuses you using one of these programs, you have the ability as granted by the TOS to call forth an investigation of their behaviors. Nobody here is taking that away from you, and many people advocate fight club rules to prevent this type of abuse from being common.

I have done nothing but educate players on the rules surrounding, official statements given, and real effects and technology used for parsers in this game to do their job, and even corrected several misconceptions about how they work and why you may not consider them ethical with the "pro parser" crowd. Others, however, have resorted to simply repeating ToS diatribes written by legal robots and the phrase "cheating".