So resetting's against the rules now?

[Velo_Vandore]

You realize that by wanting to take the hunt on alone it makes you more greedy than if you shared with other people? Not sharing = greedy, sharing = not greedy; we learn this at a very young age. You should just shout "invite" in the zone when the mob is up and you'll get in a group ASAP, get your bill completed, and be on your way.

Thanks for the definition :/

I've never received the full reward for a hunt but I'm not an active hunter. I understand I can get a better chance at the full reward by joining a party and spamming medica or something, but that's a ridiculous way to play in my opinion when nobody needs heals. I would rather engage the enemy with a smaller group and enjoy playing in a more engaging way. You may think it's selfish but some players value actual gameplay over rewards for doing essentially nothing.

If you engage before people arrive you will not be reprimanded for griefing, but if you re-set the mob you can. That's the way it is and should be.

[Eckhart]

Now you finally made a point. You can share it and everyone can take profit from it.

But now you must accept the other side of the coin, we are NOT obliged to share it, and by rightfully not doing it, I'm not greedy nor a bad person, because it's a freaking hunting game.

And by the way, I play with many people in the game on a daily basis, just because my anger words directed to you because you still won't grasp a different side of the coin, even after a GM stated it, does not mean I'm a loner, that I don't belong here, only playing siingle players, because, that's discriminatory to say the least, for you to say something like that.

[Eckhart]

If you monopolize 100% of your girlfriend's time and don't let her talk to or be around other people which would be the appropriate way to share then you are doing the whole dating thing wrong.

Except there's a difference between not sharing your girlfriend (as in, love and you know what else), and invalidating her freedom.
And obviously I was referring to the former, but you brought up the latter, for the sake of your flawed argument.

And by the way, let us choose if B's are useless or not, for those of us who don't want to play the zombie-fest game, we enjoy killing B's without someone resseting it.

[Sadana]

Bs spawn every hour, what's the rush? If you can help kill an A rank, yay! If not, it'll be back later...
(caveat: Never seen anyone reset a mark on my server... >.>' )

eta: In case anyone is wondering why I commented at all...
Is the root of the problem that people are afraid of what other people will think or say about them? Hunts are the fastest way to myth (for weapon upgrade), sol (gear/alt gear), and oil/sands to upgrade weathered gear. What is driving people to be so horrible in hunts that they reset/"pull early"/grief/report and otherwise harass everyone but their friends? (And I wonder if people are losing "friends" over this.) You don't have to have everything at top level for any content, so the only reason I see people panicking if they don't get hunt credit is for bragging rights or to make sure that others don't pick on them for having "lesser" gear. Just trying to understand the herd mentality here...

[Ghishlain]

He's merely saying that you CAN report people for pulling early, but it doesn't mean they will be punished or were even in the wrong:

While I understand your reasoning is for "the greater good", I am letting you know that the GMs do not care for this "greater good", instead they care about the fact that your actions may or may not be hampering the enjoyment of other players.

Hypothetical situation: S-Rank has spawned, everyone gets together, you pull. Someone calls for a reset, and in your good nature intent, you reset the mob in order to help these additional two-three parties their credits. HOWEVER, in the mean time, because of graphical issues of the mob disappearing or perhaps because the player itself might've died and was having issues getting a raise due to them being untargetable by their party, ten players receive no credit when they would've normally been able to receive it. You have now grief-ed those ten players. Five people report you for grief-ing.

Let's break this down.

Intent: You intended to reset the mob to assist other players in getting credit for the kill. This was deliberate on your end to help serve "the greater good"
Result: Ninety players got full credit. Ten other players were unable to get full credit for their kill when they would normally be able to until you resetted the mob and they couldn't recover fast enough / see the mob to rebuild their contribution.
Investigation: GMs see you have a history of resetting mobs and thus potentially hampering the gameplay of other players

I would like to reiterate the fact that the GMs do not care about "the greater good". They have to treat all paying customers equally. Thus, your actions have now caused X amount of people to have their enjoyment compromised with your intent to reset for the mob for more people can get their contribution.

Speaking of resetting to assist more players on your server is not an aegis for breaking the ToS and grief-ing other players. This is why Enkrateia spoke of this:

In light of that external analysis, your claimed intent may not be considered the actual intent at the end of the investigation.

If you happen to get a GM who just happened to have a bad day and they don't want to listen to your words and instead see your own actions, then you are risking a warning / suspension / ban for the greater good of the server population. If you understand this risk and willingly take it, then there is not much more to say about it.

Just one last emphasis for you just to be clear you understand that what you do risks the ire of the GM team:

However, that being said, the reality of these intentions have been pointed out in this thread by others: by intentionally resetting a hunt mark, you have chosen to interfere with the game play of other customers.

[CassandraJean]

I understand resetting for people still coming, but it can be -supremely- unfair to the people already engaged in the fight. I was in a hunting group and we were the first to find the A mark in Coerthas. We all gathered, and to be good, we called it out to all our linkshells and waited. We waited maybe 5 minutes, a good crowd gathered, and we pulled.

After we fought it, someone yanked aggro away from us and reset the mob and we lost full credit because of that. And can you really tell me that it was totally fair to us, and all of our friends and linkshell mates who hurried over, that we lose full credit because of the resetting?

[Eckhart]

Could have not said it better Ghishlain. I'm not the type to write things so concisely and well written, I kind of explode in rage when people that are obviously abusing the system and making others pay, thinking they are doing the correct thing, because they just won't listen.

[RaineMagus]

People ultimately are going argue back and forth regarding whether or not resetting is *morally* right or wrong, regardless (key-word) whether or not it's against SquareEnix's ToS for the game or against their official stance on the issue as a company. Additionally it should be noted that certainly not that many people actually read the forums [especially non-stickied threads that will ultimately be buried]. Basically, until action is taken and the fundamental mechanics of the hunt are redesigned ... this will never be truly-resolved in terms of people who're going to take and assess their actions on their own perceived principles & what they believe to be right. Aka, it's going to be a perpetual point of issue between players and constant source of violations of the ToS...

I personally feel that this is a EXTREMELY unhealthy and contention-prone situation for the community, brought on primarily by the mechanics / implementation more than anything else (such as "players"). That people who believe they're helping the community are even getting into a situation where players feel the need to report them, or vice versa for the whole "premature-pull", "early-pull", or whatever-you-feel-like-calling-it concept (heard of plenty of people being reported for this too) ... this all just shouldn't be happening to begin with.

--That all said, I don't see it as an issue / worth arguing whether or not each side is valid, justifiable, etc. It's simply irrelevant as there exist people who perceive these sides to be morally right / wrong [again, ignoring any clear-cut definition(s) of infractions of the ToS]. Even if SquareEnix clearly defines acceptable behaviors for the hunt (*say, stating it in the game itself that resets aren't permissible*), people will still feel the desire to (and probably will) do it anyway...

[I'm not here to argue morality]. I would however, like to see this permanently resolved for the sake of the community's continued unity / for the game to be a pleasant place for all players.




There's already been some good suggestions within this thread, such as Giantbane's:

Bare minimum solution is to not reset contribution on reset. I can see little to no downside in doing this.

Or (as also has been suggested in several threads):

Changing the mob behavior such that resetting isn't possible, by having the mob simply move on to the next person in the threat-list / wiping enmity of the person that ran away. Basically resetting the monster if and only if the number of players on its threat-list reaches zero.


However, I'm inclined to think that people will simply shift their arguments to the whole "early-pull" / "not-waiting" if this is done, and or still become agitated with the need to hang around if resets are permitted (with contribution not being lost). -- [eg, inability to move onto another hunt-mob that they're aware of]

Perhaps as a compromise, the ability to reset FATEs AND Hunt mobs can be done away with (should be fixed for FATE's regardless of this). In trade, some minimum delay can be imposed / godmode grace period before a hunt mob can be harmed. Grace period becomes the minimum wait-time, people can engage their found hunt-mob immediately and begin building enmity / contribution ... nobody can reset, if people don't get there intime, the initial puller cannot be blamed as there was an imposed grace-period already. Solo players perhaps have the entire grace-period to attempt to build contribution (hunt-mobs live for a minimum time regardless participation), and therefore get stronger odds at getting gold.

NOTE: This compromise still permits a group of players (or solo player) to NOT announce a hunt-mob (their right), if they so choose. If noone else finds it intime (before the grace-period expires), so be it. At least hopefully, people not making it there intime understand that the mob was up for at least this designated period of time.


Unfortunately this still doesn't do anything about the "zerg" that some people are trying to avoid, if people call in their friends, and their friends have a period to get there. Yet, given people already reset bosses (hence causing this entire thread's topic), I fail to see how this could possibly make things any worse.

That the zerg is a problem, such as in exceeding the visible object count / poor performance / etc etc. This is something that can be addressed with an addition to the client to automatically hide everyone other than your team (optional) ... or to have an ability to specify a player-limit.

Sorting and prioritizing rendering would be nice, and a good start to guarantee the hunt mob can be seen and targeted. Still, that won't help people whenever their game is running at say 4fps from the number of players on the screen.


So, that's my plea to SquareEnix. Please don't let your initial HP adjustment of the hunts be your only major address.

--Don't blame the players, find the root of the contention and rectify it with some mechanics driven, enforced, compromise that promotes prosperity of the game and eliminates unnecessary hatred within the community.

[Eckhart]

We know the problem it's actually in the system, not the players RaineMagus, at least I do. But in the end, what's happening at the moment is that the majority of players is taking an unhealthy advantage, and griefing over a minority. True, it's a minority compared to the zerg, but players nonetheless, that rightfully should be able to play the game on the same ground based on the system mechanics, not imposed rules of some factions of players just so they are "messiahs".

And until the system it's fixed, it's going to be happening again and time again, and that's why this topic was brought up. Looking for a GM answer of what's right and wrong until they fix the system, and we got our answer.

Don't reset, simple as that.

[RaineMagus]

We know the problem it's actually in the system, not the players RaineMagus, at least I do. But in the end, what's happening at the moment is that the majority of players is taking an unhealthy advantage, and griefing over a minority. True, it's a minority compared to the zerg, but players nonetheless, that rightfully should be able to play the game on the same ground based on the system mechanics, not imposed rules of some factions of players just so they are "messiahs".

And until the system it's fixed, it's going to be happening again and time again, and that's why this topic was brought up. Looking for a GM answer of what's right and wrong until they fix the system, and we got our answer.

Don't reset, simple as that.

Absolutely, and it's good to hear other people say that their beef isn't directed necessarily at the playerbase.

SquareEnix should however make an additional-effort (beyond this forum post, such as on lodestone) if that's their ultimate decision ... and furthermore make this a priority to fix in order to 'minimize' perceived grief by both groups of people in the meantime. The only party that can ultimately put an end to this, hopefully everyone agrees is SquareEnix and thus will respect their decision with the promise of, or outlining of, further planned action.