So resetting's against the rules now?

[Giantbane]

Right, but then you get into the argument along the lines of:

"Hey, kill it already! I've been here for a half hour!"

"OMG NO WAIT WHY DID YOU KILL IT, MY LS IS STILL COMING!"

- All for a monster worth 5 Allied seals.

An extreme case to be sure, but a valid one still the same. As a matter of opinion, I'd prefer a more solid solution to the content flooding problem we have than continual band-aids. The reset matter would, in my view, still be a band aid.


Some reasons in brief:
It still encourages conformist behavior for open world content.
It still forces fights designed for 4,8, and 24 players respectively to try to saddle the burden of 30+ Players and rapidly growing by the minute every time it spawns. (In short, no method for participation scaling.)
It still enables content denial enforced by players. (Players force resetting until the next window will open during their groups ideal time under the guise of "We're helping people!")

I don't see that as any worse than what we have now. At least this way, those who are "non-conformist" didn't lose their credit because of it.

[Mcshiggs]

At least this way, those who are "non-conformist" didn't lose their credit because of it.

So by non-conformist, you mean those of us that were able to read the ToS and see that resetting enemies was against it, and didn't want to be part of groups that were doing it? Or basically those of us that had the ability to think for ourselves instead of mindlessly following the sheep mob and anything shiny that popped up to attract it's attention.

[Thayos]

I think you need to establish what you think an "early pull" is.

That would be just as pointless as the GM trying to give a simple answer.

[Hyrist]

I don't see that as any worse than what we have now. At least this way, those who are "non-conformist" didn't lose their credit because of it.

That's a point, but what I am saying is I don't' see it as a significant enough impact to truly improve the atmosphere change that the hunts have caused. I do believe a more profound solution to the problem is needed that would better accommodate all parties involved.

See, while those who end up being swarmed by the group still gets full credit, what if the monster dies before the crowd's nebulous and unspoken number of acceptable participants arrive? That individual is still defaced and harassed for partaking in content that is no way required by rule nor function to become a giant party in order to enjoy, even though the expected participant projection for the monster type was well exceed.

It just doesn't solve the underlining social problem I see being created by this system.

(Ok, gone now, back really killing me. See you later!)

[Giantbane]

That's a point, but what I am saying is I don't' see it as a significant enough impact to truly improve the atmosphere change that the hunts have caused. I do believe a more profound solution to the problem is needed that would better accommodate all parties involved.

See, while those who end up being swarmed by the group still gets full credit, what if the monster dies before the crowd's nebulous and unspoken number of acceptable participants arrive? That individual is still defaced and harassed for partaking in content that is no way required by rule nor function to become a giant party in order to enjoy, even though the expected participant projection for the monster type was well exceed.

It just doesn't solve the underlining social problem I see being created by this system.

(Ok, gone now, back really killing me. See you later!)

Well, right. I'm sure there are much more thorough solutions to the whole mess, but I was talking bare minimum solutions that would ideally require very limited dev work on SE's side, since this seems to be at a premium right now.

take care, hope you feel better

[Giantbane]

So by non-conformist, you mean those of us that were able to read the ToS and see that resetting enemies was against it, and didn't want to be part of groups that were doing it? Or basically those of us that had the ability to think for ourselves instead of mindlessly following the sheep mob and anything shiny that popped up to attract it's attention.

Read what I quoted, then my response and maybe you'll see that there was nothing derogatory about the use of "non-conformist".

[Thayos]

Well, right. I'm sure there are much more thorough solutions to the whole mess, but I was talking bare minimum solutions that would ideally require very limited dev work on SE's side, since this seems to be at a premium right now.

Honestly, I feel like I've probably done more hunts than most people in this thread, and most people just roll with the punches from early pulls or resets. I think it's more of an issue on the forums than it is among people who actually do hunts.

Definitely entertaining to talk about, though.

If you're not reported, you probably didn't do anything that others involved felt wronged over.

Seriously? LOL.

Sadly, I've hit my post limit for the day, so I must take my leave from this barrel of snakes.

Thanks again to the GM for the clarity!

[Welsper59]

That would be just as pointless as the GM trying to give a simple answer.

Not exactly, as you generally wouldn't be reported by someone for the reasons I stated. If you're not reported, you probably didn't do anything that others involved felt wronged over. Even if you were reported under those situations, there would be enough evidence to say that you were acting acceptably. And they do need to use words and details to do said report, which is why understanding what people consider something to be, like an "early pull" is rather important. Not only does it provide potential insight for others as to what you think that is, but it also provides insight for you to what others think it is. Hence a preventative to actions that would otherwise be reported. That isn't exactly "pointless" when you really think about it.

Honestly, I feel like I've probably done more hunts than most people in this thread, and most people just roll with the punches from early pulls or resets. I think it's more of an issue on the forums than it is among people who actually do hunts.

Definitely entertaining to talk about, though.

That's partly because a lot of folks don't want to bother dealing with the hordes. Many don't mind of course, but ask anyone that isn't doing them about why they don't. I guarantee that an overwhelming majority will state at least one reason being the negativity and lack of enjoyment to be found unless you were part of the dominant groups.

[PrimeEvilPanda]

That would be just as pointless as the GM trying to give a simple answer.

According to Herd Mentality, it's simple: an individual outside of the HERD is selfish for pulling without waiting for "the rest of the server" (please, this statement constitutes the dominant Hunt Linkshell and IIRC Network only). If you're a member of said Hunt network pulling, I have yet to see any of them reset the mob to some poor individual who shouted "wait please" - you know what they're answer would be: "Too bad - should've gotten here quicker when we called the timer".

Across each server, small groups are trying to dictate the rules of The Hunt with the rest of the community to suit their own motives - them resetting the mobs for "the greater good of the community" is BS and you know it. At the moment, you're not complaining about this system because it's working fine for you. The irony though, when the system eventually screws you over, I wager you'll be the first person in the thread complaining that "something's gotta be done!".

This is how human nature works: the ones bitching are the ones that have been screwed over by the system and the "haves" at the moment don't see anything wrong because they haven't been negatively impacted yet.

[Brine_Gildchaff]

Well... I understand the position given, but I think if Square's going to take this stance, at least something should be done about griefers causing problems with people who decide it'd be a courteous thing to do to shout and give a few minutes. I feel like there should be some sort of recourse if I go out, discover a mob on my own initiative and work, decide that I want to shout and let a few other parties assemble before I go pulling, but then one person who didn't find the mob, and may well not have been actively looking at all, takes it upon themselves to run in and start the pull over and against the wishes of the team that actually found the mark.