The Ultimate Black Mage Resources with Damage Calculator

[LetBloodline]

I think our best bet would be to...
1. Stay "kinda" close to the mob, so Fire lands within the 0.5s delay we are forcing.
2. Only do a "non-Thundercloud" Fireweave on the last Fire of your Astral Cycle.
3. Alternate between using Lethargy and Surecast as the OGCD for that last Fire.

That said, ~1.5-2 dps from "Fireweaving" in current endgame gear, where we should be doing upward of 350 dps... Do we REALLY need it?
I mean, its nice... but, not required. =)

Like stated above i really think that those numbers about last fire are leaving out many things and that even that last fire should be not fireweaved

[YanderePrincess]

Like stated above i really think that those numbers about last fire are leaving out many things and that even that last fire should be not fireweaved

I have to agree with this.

Another thing it's not taking into consideration is reaction time. While you're giving a .5s window for the firestarter proc to show up, you're going to have less than a .1s window most likely to actually see that a firestarter proc occurred after you use your OGCD ability. You could eliminate the issue of reacting to the Firestarter proc by simply always hitting Fire III immediately after using your OGCD ability, but then 60% of the time you will start casting a normal speed, 1000+ mp fire III instead of the instant, free Fire III, meaning you would need to cancel your cast and switch to Fire I. Conversely, you could just go ahead and hit Fire I expecting there not to be a Firestarter proc, because the odds favor there not being a firestarter proc, but then you're wasting the whole purpose in the first place.

To actually make use of the proc when it happens, you have to watch and react accordingly, which is going to add further delay beyond the .5s you're already delaying things, which means that Fireweaving with OGCDs is not really going to do you any better than simply waiting for firestarter procs to appear in the first place. The only benefit is if it's an ability you're already needing to use during your Fire phase (such as activating Raging Strikes, throwing Lethargy on something, etc.), you may as well watch for and use any Firestarter proc that occurs. Using Fireweaving with OGCDs as an attempt to reduce the delay you get by simply "waiting" might look good on paper, but in practice it literally changes nothing except that you're doing something that may, or may not be, useful during the wait time.

As for the Thundercloud fireweave, don't we do that already just because you want to throw it down asap because you could get another thundercloud proc while you're casting the Fire III, whereas you can't get a Firestarter proc after casting the Fire III without casting Fire I, so you're "wasting chances for procs" if you do FSF3 > TCT3.

[LetBloodline]

If you get TC while you have FS you should not just cast both but cast F3 then F1 then T3. I was not doing it

[Ceveth]

I've already posted the math showing that any non-zero time checking for a Firestarter proc is going to net you a loss in DPS.

However it doesn't address the time spent transposing for the Fire III upon leaving your Umbral Ice phase.
Because of this I think you might see a marginal DPS increase from "fire-weaving" Lethargy & Surecast before Blizzard III.

[LetBloodline]

I've already posted the math showing that any non-zero time checking for a Firestarter proc is going to net you a loss in DPS.

However it doesn't address the time spent transposing for the Fire III upon leaving your Umbral Ice phase.
Because of this I think you might see a marginal DPS increase from "fire-weaving" Lethargy & Surecast before Blizzard III.

The transpose thing is benefical since you get a direct increase or dmg in the next spell that is worth those 0.5 sec (whould be nice to do little math to know how much SSD you should have to skip that as well) but pre blizzard is different. That choice have many consequences that are not taken in account. I'd like more in depth evaluation or those

[YanderePrincess]

I've already posted the math showing that any non-zero time checking for a Firestarter proc is going to net you a loss in DPS.

However it doesn't address the time spent transposing for the Fire III upon leaving your Umbral Ice phase.
Because of this I think you might see a marginal DPS increase from "fire-weaving" Lethargy & Surecast before Blizzard III.

Well, you also have to consider thigns like the fact that the Fire III will be free, leaving you your -entire- mana bar rather than taking a little out the way it often normally does, which can allow things like getting Thunder II instead of Thunder I in your next Ice phase.

[PuroStrider]

Kenji pls...

Range does not matter when dealing with Firestarter proc.

Proof: This works for both meelee and max range:

/ac "Fire" <t>
/wait 2.5
/wait 0.5
/ac "Fire III" <t>

Changing 0.5 to 0.4 or 0.49 will NOT work for both melee or max range.

So, we can definitely say that Firestarter proc registers exactly 0.5 second after Fire has finished casting. Fire weaving allows us to fill that 0.5 gap perfectly.

----

I can definitely improve the calculator by adjusting number of spells to cover all possible fire proc schematic to address this fire weaving better instead of limiting it to 100 spells, but that will have to wait another day... or week.. or never :P

[PuroStrider]

@YanderePrincess regarding 'full MP' benefit from using free Firestarter in UI phase.

MP requirement for full rotation:

Fire I x5 + Blizz III (AF3) + Thunder I/II/III + Fire III (UI3)

638 x 5 + 79 + X + 133 = 3402 + X

Thunder I = 3402 + 212 = 3614 (Lowest PIE race = Highlander = 239 PIE = 3629 MP)

Thunder II = 3402 + 319 = 3721 (251 PIE = 3728 MP)

Thunder III = 3402 + 425 = 3827 (263 PIE = 3827)

So, it does not matter because you would have sufficient MP to begin with. However, using a free F3 during UI3 will allow those without 251 PIE to use Thunder II.

But then again. There's little to no difference between using T1/2 aside from the potential less wait time for T2 during UI3 phase if you opt'd for traditional rotation.

[LetBloodline]

Puro, i'm in you ignore list?
Or you don't deem my points good enough to be answered?

[YanderePrincess]

Thunder I = 3402 + 212 = 3614 (Lowest PIE race = Highlander = 269 PIE = 3629 MP)

Thunder II = 3402 + 319 = 3721 (251 PIE = 3728 MP)

Um, did you typo something? Cause you just said 269 PIE < 251 PIE.

Also, how much do you lose from that .5s delay on the 60% of rotations where you don't get a Firestarter proc at the end of the fire phase?