Please take a look at LOTRO for the proper way to design end game dungeons

[givemeraptors]

I'm unconvinced that helicanarssis in haukke Manor hard is beatable with minimum ilvl tbh.

SCH/SMN Virus
SCH Sacred Soil
Caster E4E (ahead of time so it has time to proc)
Tank LB or DD LB
PLD Hallowed Ground + Cover your healer so they can live and rez squishy DPS
BLM can pop Manaward
MNK can use Fists of Earth for 10% damage reduction
DRG... ahh Keen Flurry? Okay he's gonna die.
BRD can play Foe's to boost damage and save all CDs for last add
War can use Storm's Path

I've seen people derp hard on this fight in ilvl90 so I don't doubt that it's very difficult at minimum ilvl, but it's definitely doable. It just requires above average skill. It's a separate conversation whether that is a good thing or not.

[Yonko]

This is false on so many levels. Gear in this game is vertical, which means there is a best set of gear, period. FFXI had multiple sets of gears for different fights. There is only so far "skill" can get you in the game. There is a ceiling on most end game fights that requires a certain ilvl to pass, you can have the best rotation in the world, it won't matter if your DPS isn't up to speed.

Tell that to the people in i110 gear that can't beat T5.

[RhazeCain]

Tell that to the people in i110 gear that can't beat T5.

Edit: Actually, I stated something wrong previously. But still the inability to beat t5 in high end gear really has nothing to do with the quoted statement. A better example would be the people hitting t8 enrage with lesser gear.

[Sassi666]

snip for character limit.

Damage negation is only one part. If the tank uses Lb good luck getting Amandine down. The main thing is the dps check on each add and if you don't finish the fight in time it's a wipe as she sucks in a player and one hits the party. At ilvl 48 this would be next to impossible. My friend and I were ilvl 70 with 70 weapons the first time we did this and the tank wanted to kick us as he said we wouldn't have enough dps. We killed her first go but reading strategy before I went in many people said you just couldn't get the dps at the mo ilvl. Anyway sorry for derailing the thread.

[Staris]

Yes lets mimic more Free - play games

This is almost the same as people who want to mimic 1.0

... That game did so well.

[Charisma]

I'm unconvinced that helicanarssis in haukke Manor hard is beatable with minimum ilvl tbh.

You would wonder how much damage a low equipped character can do.
Most of time the dps you find in DF, deal like 70% of their real potency.

Also LB on last add, nullifies any DPS race

[Kaonis]

I can get on board with a change. As it stands dungeons serve no purpose. They are pretty much designed for a fresh 50, but have crap for rewards (gl getting loot when the loot tables are so massive). If there wasn't a daily for them I would literally never run any of these dungeons after day 1 because they serve no purpose. They are laughably easy (their ilvl requirements are so insanely low), their rewards are purely for vanity (and as I said on a massive loot table, I STILL haven't seen some things drop from dozens if not over 100+ runs during the myth farming days).

Regardless of what people thinks need to be done, dungeons need an over haul as they are just a waste of space and time as it stands.

[Nestama]

I'm unconvinced that helicanarssis in haukke Manor hard is beatable with minimum ilvl tbh.

I once did HMHM with two fresh 50 DDs, a SMN and DRG. Halicarnassis took a few tries, but we managed to beat her just fine. Mind you, one wipe had the PLD leave (which was good. Despite their Animus status, they did NOT grab adds or assist in DPS on adds. Replacement PLD was much better and allowed me to easily Cleric Dance).

Sure, that's two ilvl90+ players and two ilvl49-52 players, but still. We beat her with maybe 10 seconds left before her enrage
Also, our first PLD was trying to force a speed run (pulling ALL the mobs), which took longer than killing mobs one group at a time. A lot of wipes were caused by that Animus PLD, now that I think about it.

[Rainsworth]

I can get on board with a change. As it stands dungeons serve no purpose. They are pretty much designed for a fresh 50, but have crap for rewards (gl getting loot when the loot tables are so massive). If there wasn't a daily for them I would literally never run any of these dungeons after day 1 because they serve no purpose. They are laughably easy (their ilvl requirements are so insanely low), their rewards are purely for vanity (and as I said on a massive loot table, I STILL haven't seen some things drop from dozens if not over 100+ runs during the myth farming days).

Regardless of what people thinks need to be done, dungeons need an over haul as they are just a waste of space and time as it stands.

Dungeons are there to prepare you for ex primals/coil. They are serving that purpose just fine. It's true that you can get tomes by hunting marks but unless your server is not filled with greedy people, it may not be the best option.