Please take a look at LOTRO for the proper way to design end game dungeons

[Rattleh3ad]

Dungeons as of now have zero purpose end game. In fact, anything other than hunts has zero end game purpose. Good luck trying to get Ramuh Ex cleared. Why bother? The hunts provide better rewards for a fraction of the skill required.

They need to take a look at LOTRO for proper ways to design end game dungeons.

Basically, every end game dungeon in LOTRO had 2 difficulties. The higher end difficulty also had an optional challenge on every hard run, which when beat, yielded very good loot, just a little under raid gear. Difficulty was on par with end game raids if you chose to do challenge mode.

I think what this game needs is to have a similar system. Savage mode for all dungeons with additional optional objectives. The problem is that it's still easier to do hunts and get better gear, which is why hunts were a mistake. Hopefully in the future they can overhaul the gear progression to be more gradual.

[BazFamrit]

I kinda like the way it is now. All jobs require both purchasable and second coil gear for best in slot. You can also upgrade your purchased gear through coil hunts or syrcus tower. Lots of options to choose from.

The thing most people don't get is that the current gear is a gradual progression. All the content in the game requires more skill than gear. There are people with full i110 soldiery gear that still can't beat things like titan extreme with max echo...

Gear means nothing without skill and there are many many ways to acquire better gear both for hardcore and casual players. I, like many others, prefer winning by playing well rather than steamrolling everything with over powered gear.

[Rattleh3ad]

This is false on so many levels. Gear in this game is vertical, which means there is a best set of gear, period. FFXI had multiple sets of gears for different fights. There is only so far "skill" can get you in the game. There is a ceiling on most end game fights that requires a certain ilvl to pass, you can have the best rotation in the world, it won't matter if your DPS isn't up to speed.

[givemeraptors]

There is a ceiling on most end game fights that requires a certain ilvl to pass, you can have the best rotation in the world, it won't matter if your DPS isn't up to speed.

It's called a minimum ilvl and it's required for all post-50 content.
So actually yes, if you have the best rotation in the world (plus can dodge etc.) and meet the requirements to enter the fight you will win.

[Rainsworth]

2nd coil is all about skills more than gear.

[BazFamrit]

This is false on so many levels. Gear in this game is vertical, which means there is a best set of gear, period. FFXI had multiple sets of gears for different fights. There is only so far "skill" can get you in the game. There is a ceiling on most end game fights that requires a certain ilvl to pass, you can have the best rotation in the world, it won't matter if your DPS isn't up to speed.

All content can be completed with the minimum required ilvl for the instance. Gear only helps cover people's flaws. There's a reason ppl in i100+ gear still can't beat things like titan extreme even with max echo.

[Sassi666]

I'm unconvinced that helicanarssis in haukke Manor hard is beatable with minimum ilvl tbh.

[Synestr]

Slightly back on topic...

As an ex-LoTRO player I would second the dungeon suggestion, mainly the part about the different tiers of difficulty. Regular mode is what we have now for HM. Then actual "Hard Mode" would include a challenge, with specific criteria met, tougher trash and bosses. If you miss an objective in the Challenge you loose out on the extra special chest at the end boss. Still get actual HM loot but not that extra chest. Regular could keep the crafting mat parade that is currently in place, HM would have i85-i90 and the challenge chest would have a 2% drop reate for oil/sands/UAT and 65% rate for i95 gear (weapon, accessory, armor) and a 33% rate for an i100 piece.

I think that wold be fun. Can work in tome rewards and what not.

But I think this would be something neat to see.

/discuss...flaws - benefits -etc

Syn

[Adler]

This is false on so many levels. Gear in this game is vertical, which means there is a best set of gear, period. FFXI had multiple sets of gears for different fights. There is only so far "skill" can get you in the game. There is a ceiling on most end game fights that requires a certain ilvl to pass, you can have the best rotation in the world, it won't matter if your DPS isn't up to speed.

The only difficulty cap in end game content is braindead people. Skill or let's say ability to think is more important than gear.

[Adler]

I'm unconvinced that helicanarssis in haukke Manor hard is beatable with minimum ilvl tbh.

If all 4 members know what they do then it can. If 1 member use same 1-2 skills whole fight then no