Where do dungeons fit in this game SE?

[Chrisbox]

Let me ask you, what do you think the purpose of dungeons should be? And what do you think should be changed to make them fill that purpose?



I'll assume you eat the same meal for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snacks every day? :P I'd say give that a shot. Afterward I would love to hear your thoughts on variety.

If you read my first post...or any of them you'd see I said I have no clue where to make them fit into this game, and no I don't expect them to drop BiS or anything dumb like that. The people that asked what I would like them to do don't understand my position. I'd like a reason to do them more than once. I literally have no idea what should be done with them, but saying they have a real purpose in the endgame right now is just flatout wrong. I need to go edit the initial post and throw the word endgame in there i guess to streamline the focus.

[Rainsworth]

If you read my first post...or any of them you'd see I said I have no clue where to make them fit into this game, and no I don't expect them to drop BiS or anything dumb like that. The people that asked what I would like them to do don't understand my position. I'd like a reason to do them more than once. I literally have no idea what should be done with them, but saying they have a real purpose in the endgame right now is just flatout wrong. I need to go edit the initial post and throw the word endgame in there i guess to streamline the focus.

Let's pretend that you are right: how would you make them useful at lvl 50?

[Chrisbox]

Let's pretend that you are right: how would you make them useful at lvl 50?

"I literally have no idea.." Taken from the post you quoted....Tell me about how much dungeons have done for you at level 50 recently? Or perhaps lets throwback with earlier patches to the super awesome 2.0 CM speedruns, AK speedruns, brayflox.....Don't forget though, speedrunning was never SE's purpose with level 50 dungeons ladies and gents, they haven't figured one out yet and that's the point here.

Don't get me wrong either- I'm not gonna unsub if they don't change dungeons, I enjoyed my run throughs of all the recently released ones, nor am I here to put down everyone that enjoys dungeons on the reg. I'm pointing out a part of the game that SE hasn't touched on, its important that the community lets devs know when something is lacking in importance especially in a game thats very early in the development process, who knows how it'll evolve in the coming years.

inb4 someone else asks me what I would do

[Rainsworth]

"I literally have no idea.." Taken from the post you quoted....

Why do you think people are doing speedruns? What's the purpose of your thread if you have no idea what they should do with dungeons?

BTW I do dungeons everyday.

[JonBigwood]

Hi. I see what you mean about dungeons in end game. For a high ilvl player the Expert dungeons are too easy (though in DF you can find vote abandons) and the loot is not important except for retainers, alt classes, gil, etc. The tome farm is the big goal. A good thing is that you easily cap the soldiery tomes, so there's no need to grind and repeat content if you don't like to.

I would have liked the new Expert Dungeons to be a bit more difficult. Maybe have better drops too, but that would be a conflict with Syrcus Tower, that has a weekly cap for loot. Soldiery tomes are a good reward.

Balancing the difficulty is not easy, look what happened with Pharos Sirius when launched, it was a bit too difficult compared to the similar dungeons and people didn't want to do it. The best players will always find a dungeon a bit easy if more average players with the same ilvl are able to win.

Dungeons have to be easy enough so that you can reasonably expect to win with a duty finder group. There's sort of a gap between instances that are a bit too easy and those that practically require a Party Finder or static group and a lot of practice like Ex Primals or T5 and higher.

There's also the need that new players have to be able to eventually catch up (with effort and time) and don't have an eternal disadvantage compared to the ones that started to play some months before. Adding too quickly new higher gear and putting high ilvl requirements could make more difficult to catch up, but of course it can be fine tuned with time.

Probably with time and more new dungeons the difficulty may be set in more number of steps and hopefully new more difficult dungeons with better drops may come.

On the other hand, there are lots of things to do and different ways to obtain the things you need, which is fine.

[WellFooled]

If you read my first post...or any of them you'd see I said I have no clue where to make them fit into this game...I'm pointing out a part of the game that SE hasn't touched on, its important that the community lets devs know when something is lacking

I definitely appreciate this. Feedback from the players can be really helpful for developers, just like in any other creative profession. That said, imagine you were a painter and asked for input on a painting you had just made for a living room and the person tells you "This painting just doesn't work in this living room". You ask why and they say, "I don't know. It just doesn't work." Would you find that very helpful? Wouldn't it only be helpful if the person explains why? "Its too big for the space." or "The colors don't match" is the kind of feedback they would need in order to correct the problem.

Other players in this thread have given detailed counter-arguments; The list so far is that dungeons are for fun, desynth fodder, minions, training, leveling up, useful gear, tomestones, relic weapons, variety, and crafting mats, but your whole argument so far is "No they aren't!". Everyone else is saying the painting looks great in the living room, so if the artist is going to change it he'll need more from you than "I don't argree." Why don't you agree?

Edit: Fixed typo, included more in quote box.

[DishSoap]

I agree with the OP dungeons aren't really that important. Sure you CAN grind dungeons for tomes and you CAN grind them for vanity but really that's not that great of a thing. Getting mats from dungeons isn't a very stable way to get them since everyone is going to need on them. I'd thing dungeons would have a greater impact if the gear you get from them was seen as more than "vanity" if it was actually useful but that's not the case, I think this problem has less to do with dungeon themselves and as more to do with the easy of access of i90 gear.

[Warlyx]

for crafting mats , because thats what the only thing that drops there nowdays

[Dimitrii]

for crafting mats , because thats what the only thing that drops there nowdays

Yeah the rng in this game seems so broken. Past couple days of DF expert dungeons I've seen an average of 1 gear drop per run with the rest of the loot being crafting materials. And yesterday I did Stone Vigil and it dropped no gear at all lol. But then again it should be expected when most crafting skills that supposedly have a 90% success rate actually only succeed about 75% of the time in my experience (Especially love the failing a 90% success rate move 4 times in a row. That never gets old)

[Sonofbaldo]

I think the OPs problem with dungeons is they are inherently pointless as far as the world is concerned. Sure they drop shinies for people but thats all they seem to be. A funnel for the game to throw shinies at you. There's no depth to these dungeons at all. Why are they there? Why do I need to do them? What difference is there if I do them or not? (aside from shinies)

I know they all have their own mini-stories but that gets thrown out the window with having to skip cut scenes and the sheer amount of times you constantly repeat each one. That completely negates any real meaningful purpose for them other than shinies.

I could be wrong but that was always my problem with this game. Every thing is so rapid fire and quick that you never get a sense of why you have to do these things, other than its required to get certain shinies. That problem plagues the entire game really.

If its time to get i100 gear and the full set was buried in a series of story driven adventures that required a couple of weeks for the average player to achieve I think that would give more of a sense of scale and accomplishment that repeating the same tired areas does not. You could leave dungeon spamming for tomes and desynths or what not...but doing it to gain ilevels definitely falls flat.

People will still repeat those story driven adventures to help friends or other players but it would be by choice because they enjoyed them...not because they have to or they're just trying to quickly farm shinies. Especially if there's a decent gil reward for doing so.

Personally if XIV ever wants to be anything more than the fluff Care Bear world it is, it has to get rid of cross-server Duty Finder. Perhaps if a community actually needed people to step up and help each other there would be more of a sense of community and the majority of End Gamers wouldn't just log on, do their dailies, and log out. Perhaps they would be more excited to assist FC/LS mates in their needs since it would take more effort than just having duty finder pick random people from any world and thrust them together where they can all act like brats without any form of consequence. If you were stuck relying on people in your own world, and reputations could actually develop...it would add yet another dynamic that a MMO should have and that XIV sorely lacks. An actual server-wide community with actual consequences for your actions.