Stop Raising Item Level and build foundation with Horizontal Progression first

[Sapphic]

Why not have players go to different dungeons to mix and match to create a set that are best for certain fights and ok for others. Instead of a generic BiS, have optimal items for different fights.

Because it's a bad idea? Can imagine it now, primal X fight, must have these certain pieces of gear that are rare drops or gtfo. Content is gated by ilvl and players require minimum ilvl to join PF parties (no I dont PF, I have a static). Now you want to add even more gear checks to content?



Imagine how many sets you would need if you like to play multiple jobs?

So basically you want it like FFXI with macro gear swaps for practically every ability, but instead for every fight?. Thanks but noway thanks. That trash can stay in FFXI and those who want that can take that option of playing FFXI.

Having more options of gear so you can go heavy crit, or skill/spell speed etc. WOuld be a welcome addition (not to mention making all secondary stats as desirable as each other). But different sets for different bosses (or abilities) newp!

[Magis]

Because it's a bad idea? Can imagine it now, primal X fight, must have these certain pieces of gear that are rare drops or gtfo. Content is gated by ilvl and players require minimum ilvl to join PF parties (no I dont PF, I have a static). Now you want to add even more gear checks to content?

I said best not required. People still do T6 in ilvl 90 gear and can clear it. However it does mean that an item from 3 patches ago is still viable and gives a reason to do that old content, because it gives you a bonus to killing a boss or completing a duty.

So basically you want it like FFXI with macro gear swaps for practically every ability, but instead for every fight?. Thanks but noway thanks. That trash can stay in FFXI and those who want that can take that option of playing FFXI.

How dare people want the game to have a bit more complexity than "make this number be big (ilvl)". Having just base stats isn't going to fix the problem, because people will just get w.e is BiS (the biggest stats). You haven't really fixed anything at that point.

[Tupsi]

Because it's a bad idea? Can imagine it now, primal X fight, must have these certain pieces of gear that are rare drops or gtfo.

It's a bad idea to play an MMORPG. Let me ask you as a question:

Do people largely accept you going into Primal X or Coil 1/2 undergeared? Hm? No? Well then, there's no difference. People already require you to have certain pieces or they'll want you out, that won't change just because of other gear addition lol. Meeting requirements is a standard of any kind of raiding in MMOs, that hasn't changed.

[Sapphic]

It's a bad idea to play an MMORPG. Let me ask you as a question:

Do people largely accept you going into Primal X or Coil 1/2 undergeared? Hm? No? Well then, there's no difference. People already require you to have certain pieces or they'll want you out, that won't change just because of other gear addition lol. Meeting requirements is a standard of any kind of raiding in MMOs, that hasn't changed.

I've been playing MMOs since EQ1. All that time have come to conclusion that choice is an illusion. By making it require exact pieces of gear amongst a myriad of choices adds more limitations than options. Let's use FFXI as an example. on paper the options are hugely varied, in what job combinations you could have, what gear you could have, but that was an illusion enforced by the player base. You needed a certaiin job/sub job combo with specific gear more often than not, otherwise GTFO for someone who does. Grinding hours upon hours upon months for a specific item did not add any form of "complexity" it added another timesink.

Gear needed for Ilvl requirements is accesible by everyone. Which is one reason it's more succesful than FFXI.

Accesibility is the key to a succesful MMO in this time.

I stated that adding more options to gear with choice of secondary stas I would be fine with, adding specific gear for specific fights and/or abilities, newp.

[Grizzlebeard]

I've been playing MMOs since EQ1. All that time have come to conclusion that choice is an illusion. By making it require exact pieces of gear amongst a myriad of choices adds more limitations than options.

As an old EQ player you should know better than this. Yes, while it's true content lasted longer in that game, it was by no means a horizontal progression. There were a myriad of cool items in EQ, however, that maintained a use years after it was released such as the Fungi Tunic or Cloak of Flames. Then you had all of the fluff right-click items that let you change your appearance (Inky mask, skeleton bracelet) or summon food and water, etc. There's really nothing like that in this game other than the minions which are more of a status symbol than anything else.

[Ehayte]

As an old EQ player you should know better than this. Yes, while it's true content lasted longer in that game, it was by no means a horizontal progression. There were a myriad of cool items in EQ, however, that maintained a use years after it was released such as the Fungi Tunic or Cloak of Flames. Then you had all of the fluff right-click items that let you change your appearance (Inky mask, skeleton bracelet) or summon food and water, etc. There's really nothing like that in this game other than the minions which are more of a status symbol than anything else.

Mmmm... Fungi Tunic is still used TODAY as a twink item and still sells for A LOT. CoF was used well into Luclin if not beyond, plus it was tradable so it was always worth a ton of pp. Items like the fungi tunic and the clicky masks were always hugely in demand, and kept old items relevant for years (literally...what...20 expansions later people are still camping the DE mask in Lower Guk).

The point is that the itemization is boring as HELL in this game. Nothing even gives the illusion that making choices on different pieces of similar iLVL gear matter a whole lot, besides accuracy for tanks and DPS.

Min/Maxing and theorycrafting blow-hards aside, crit/det/sksp/spsp is all whatever, it all absolutely pales in comparison to raw str/dex/mnd/int.

What we need is for accessories to no longer have primary stats on them, but instead an eclectic mix of secondary stats. Like Ifrit's Bangle of Striking or whatever would be +0str +5acc +60det, while Garuda's would be like +0str +10acc +10crit +10det +10sksp +3vit.

Something interesting, and MORE loot. Diablo it if you have to, randomize each base accessory with "Sparkling" Inferno Bangle of Fending that would be +0vit +25pry +2%HPregen +5pie, whereas the "Gleaming" Inferno Bangle of Fending would be +0vit +25pry +2%HPregen +5mnd. Then a 1% drop of "Fiery" Inferno Bangle that would be +20fire resist +15pry/crit/det/sksp/spsp/acc +3%HPregen +2vit/str/dex/mnd/pie/int.

Right now the only motivation I remotely have in terms of gearing is to increase my iLVL and keep my accur up for coil. Its not that I don't care about experimenting with different builds, its just that doing it is soooo boring that its tedius, there is no apparent specialization in items.

Then again...with this game only having 13 gear slots and the way it runs it might be too hard to implement this without making it too easy to exploit.

I dunno.../rant off. I have been playing P99 lately and it makes me miss the unique itemization...

[LineageRazor]

Gear needed for Ilvl requirements is accesible by everyone. Which is one reason it's more succesful than FFXI.

Bit early to be coming to that conclusion, I think. FFXI has stood the test of time - it's lasted for more than eleven years and people are still playing it. Even if FFXIV currently has more players than FFXI did at any point in its lifespan (I don't know whether this is the case or not), that says nothing about where it'll be a decade from now.

Part of the fun of FFXI, imo, was building "Ultimate X Builds". You could look into an Ultimate Enfeebling Build for your DRK, which might require obtaining bits of armor from all kinds of different events. Or an "Ultimate WHM melee build" - sure, no one would use a melee WHM in a serious event, but that sure didn't stop people from hunting Shen, now did it? Being able to obtain these different sets of armor was part of the charm - and actually being able to USE them due to the ability to change equipment mid-combat meant that they could even be useful from time to time. "RDM's down, and we really, REALLY need to sleep the add on this boss! No worries, while a normal DRK might not be able to sleep that add, I have the Ultimate DRK Enfeebling Build!" The day is saved!

In FFXIV, there's much less option as far as Ultimate Builds go. If you're a DD, you build for damage. You don't even really have choices like "Skill speed vs Crit rate vs Determination", because it can be mathematically proven which of those stats is superior. If crit is the clear choice, and you show up with the "Ultimate Det Build", all you get is funny looks. Tanks and healers have a little more versatility; both can look to emphasizing dd roles in certain situations as needed.

Once you have your ilvl X gear from Dungeon Y, there's little incentive to go farm Raid Z for different ilvl X gear - especially if the piece you have is mathematically superior (and if it's not, you'll likely never even bother with Dungeon Y). On the other hand, if one dungeon gives your BRD a great dd body piece, and another gives your BRD a piece that's only average for dd but reduces the recast of Blunt Arrow by half, are you going to go for both pieces? You'd better believe it.

[Ghishlain]

Or an "Ultimate WHM melee build" - sure, no one would use a melee WHM in a serious event, but that sure didn't stop people from hunting Shen, now did it?

~COUGHS~ They let me >.>;... Near the end of my XI career.

---

On topic: I have nothing to add, carry on ^^;

[AzakaTonnerre]

Gear needed for Ilvl requirements is accesible by everyone. Which is one reason it's more succesful than FFXI.

Having 2 million players for 9 months (FXIV) versus having 500,000+ players for 10 years (FXI).

Not too sure which one you would call more successful than the other, so you might want to tap the breaks a little bit with that assessment.

[Magis]

Having 2 million players for 9 months (FXIV) versus having 500,000+ players for 10 years (FXI).

Not too sure which one you would call more successful than the other, so you might want to tap the breaks a little bit with that assessment.

One being released in the early 2000s when MMOs weren't exactly "mainstream" let alone most people were still on dial-up and the other after WoW bringing MMOs into mainstream? The fact XI could retain it's population for a decade on it's "archaic system" as some say, with WoW being beside it, and it's graphics staying the same since 2002... I'd say it did pretty damn well.