Stop Raising Item Level and build foundation with Horizontal Progression first

[Vaer]

Great now tell us what this horizontal progression is. It just seems to be a buzz word people like to spew these days.

Simple.

Same ilvl, different stats. Can even be cosmetic things like different animations, looks, etc.

A good example already in the game are the EX primal accessories in 2.1. i90 just like the myth accessories and coil accessories, but had different secondaries.

Ramuh is horizontal progression, i100 weapon, i100 ring, different stats. So is the ST i100 gear. Except barely anyone cares about that gear so I'm not sure this would actually work anyway.

Anyways, Ramuh and ST would be horizontal progression if there was no i110.

It basically preserves content for longer as all the gear is "relevant" for longer than vertical which is just increasing stats on gear.

[Aylis]

Great now tell us what this horizontal progression is. It just seems to be a buzz word people like to spew these days.

As taken from this article at http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/02...l-progression/


"Horizontal progression

Horizontal game mechanics make players think outside of the confines of linear progression as the games that employ them offer elements that actively cater to individualistic strategy building. Rather than equipping characters to face the latest content the MMO world can throw at them, horizontal mechanics point towards the development of a wide range of character attributes that will weather any challenges that lie ahead. Each ability isn't inherently better than another, but well-researched combinations might create a much more powerful effect. The key here is to expand the pool of items, abilities, and systems that are useful and interesting during the endgame."

Horizontal mechanics, normally equated with sandbox MMOs, faced a decline when WoW's phenomenal success caused an explosion of clones to wash across the genre. The vertical progression mechanics offered by Blizzard presented players with a popular lower barrier to entry and the company's competitors adopted a formulaic approach to themepark MMO creation. However, vertical progression can also create an all-too linear experience that makes progress feel compulsory and one-dimensional. The choices presented to players don't ultimately matter, and characters will be equipped with whichever items best boost their key stats."

Its a more skill/talent tree/dual spec system of character development that offers more freedom of choice on how a player wishes to build his or her character. Along side a system of gear having different stat set ups within its level bracket, its about giving the player coices on how they wish to build, not the devs telling the players what they must have.

[Saccharin]

As taken from this article at http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/02...l-progression/


Horizontal progression

Horizontal game mechanics make players think outside of the confines of linear progression as the games that employ them offer elements that actively cater to individualistic strategy building. Rather than equipping characters to face the latest content the MMO world can throw at them, horizontal mechanics point towards the development of a wide range of character attributes that will weather any challenges that lie ahead. Each ability isn't inherently better than another, but well-researched combinations might create a much more powerful effect. The key here is to expand the pool of items, abilities, and systems that are useful and interesting during the endgame.

Horizontal mechanics, normally equated with sandbox MMOs, faced a decline when WoW's phenomenal success caused an explosion of clones to wash across the genre. The vertical progression mechanics offered by Blizzard presented players with a popular lower barrier to entry and the company's competitors adopted a formulaic approach to themepark MMO creation. However, vertical progression can also create an all-too linear experience that makes progress feel compulsory and one-dimensional. The choices presented to players don't ultimately matter, and characters will be equipped with whichever items best boost their key stats.

How will this fit in with FF14?

Its a more skill/talent tree/dual spec system of character development that offers more freedom of choice on how a player wishes to build his or her character.

Edit: this just sounds like ability bloat. An abiltly for every circumstance. The job system does this to an effect but does need tweaking.

[odintius]

How will this fit in with FF14?

Having a creative mind might help for one and we have a system in place materia maybe people I don't know use a creative mind set and come up with some sugguestions instead of defending to the death of linear progression.

[Aylis]

How will this fit in with FF14?



Edit: this just sounds like ability bloat. An abiltly for every circumstance. The job system does this to an effect but does need tweaking.

1) Simply put, as the game is right now. it won't. The game was built around a linear progression model. It would need a third rebuild from the ground up at this point to properly implement it.

2) Its about giving the players choices on how they wish to advance and build. The job system does sorta /try/ this though severely limited and hindered. While yes the system does offer an ability for every circumstance, however I hope a player really enjoys spending endless amounts of money re-specing for each fight instead of how the system is intended for use. That being building for the character the player wishes to achieve. Another way of saying "there is no wrong way to play a character. Its in the build"

[Baneus]

How will this fit in with FF14?

How won't this fit in with FF14?

[Lyrinn]

One other thing most "horizontal progression" advocates fail to consider is that in a numbers game, there will always be a best choice. Always. Period. You can have all the choices you want but one will always be mathematically proven to be superior (even if it's by a trivial amount) to the others, hence "cookie-cutter builds." The best you can hope for is to have different playstyles (e.g. crit vs. SS) reach that same maximum but there's only so far you can go with that.

[Tupsi]

One other thing most "horizontal progression" advocates fail to consider is that in a numbers game, there will always be a best choice. Always. Period.

And for those who don't want to "go with the best but can still compete" - that's called 'horizontal/side grade' progression. You know, go for Leviathan if you don't go for T5 weapon or make an unweathered weapon regular again? It already exists, just the stats aren't that different to keep people wanting to go back. Since ilvl is most important because for example you get 35 str on one thing but 41 due to jump from ilvl 95 to 110? What if the 95 one had additional stats that enhanced your traits and still kept you up to speed without forcing your way through to turn 6-9? You know, the "options" people speak of?

[Gardes]

One other thing most "horizontal progression" advocates fail to consider is that in a numbers game, there will always be a best choice. Always. Period. You can have all the choices you want but one will always be mathematically proven to be superior (even if it's by a trivial amount) to the others, hence "cookie-cutter builds." The best you can hope for is to have different playstyles (e.g. crit vs. SS) reach that same maximum but there's only so far you can go with that.

BiS arguers also seem to forget that majority of players dont even have BiS right now and the PF is still running. It's something to work towards for most people and I have never seen any PF insisting everyone having a HA weapon to beat any trial/coil to join so yeah, that argument isn't gonna convince me. Sure, BiS will always exist and if that horizontal BiS is somehow hard to attain, there will be other builds to settle for while working towards that set, which is kinda the point (unless SE went full stupid yet again like with what they did for hunts). It can even still work if paired with vertical progression. Example: implement a good skill mod ring for blms on ifrit ex at i90, allow the ilvl to be upgraded with drops from harder ilvl fire element bosses up to a certain point until some other type of skill mod bis turns up. This way some players would want to go back to older content to get their starting desired gear.

Inventory wise, I'm a multi class player and all my combat class is i90+ and I don't care. I'll make it work (and SE should help too with armory expansion and categorization). Honestly I don't see how the "simply throw away old gear that you played hard for to make space for some tome gear with higher ilvl that just got introduced" is any better of a mindset.

[Tupsi]

Thankfully, YoshiP said he's looking into it - They got it to work in 1.23, it can work now. Just like in XI, it started out slow, just reducing cooldown timers or boosting damage or increasing duration (basically further enhancing traits) then they got crazy with adding weaponskills/occasionally attacks/drain etc. So adding some ilvl appropriate gear with better stats to "abandoned" content would be pretty nice, since let's face it, despite the route of obsoleting things after every major patch, new people will still end up going through old content because for example your relic weapon still requires content that was obsoleted even during 1.x's life span.