Adding fuel to the fire, Summoner's future

[Judge_Xero]

I like SMN the way it is. All I could ask for is a different proc system. Spell Speed is useless for SMN and Pet.
I'd be happy if Enhanced Pet let you instant cast Shadow Flare or something like that.

[Rex]

Just wanted to say I support everyone's gripes with the summoner regarding mechanics and underwhelming design, personally I'd like to see egis be more important to a summoner's dps etc. and more individuality regarding the egis' mechanics/uses, along with their models, to get some visual improvements, mostly detail and size. Making them a little bigger or giving them more detail shouldn't get in the way of anything regarding MMO limitations.

I can understand lore-wise if this is just the beginning for what is to come, so if you have plans to give each egi some sort of upgraded state/form with more importance to the job as the level goes up that would be amazing, and their current almost child-like forms would become a part of their development story-wise to summoning greater amounts of essence, although so far I haven't seen anything that would lead me to see that happening, so if you could give us any sort of info regarding the summoner's future I would really appreciate it!

I can't be the only one that wishes they'd have implemented FFXI version of Summoner. After seeing those summons, you can only be disappointed to see anything less.

You both need to read the article addressing why the dev team decided to go with the design of the Egis that they did.

I don't have the direct link, but what they basically said:

1. Since there are multiple summoners, they don't want EVERYONE to be summoning THE Ifrit (for example.) So each person learns how to summon an "essence" of Ifrit. Thus, the Ifrit-Egi. They did not want them to be smaller "copies" of the same Ifrit model...like the summons are in XI.

2. They felt if the summons were like the ones in XI, it'd be very annoying (and possibly straining for people's computers) to have 50 garudas and ifrits and titans on your screen in a FATE like with Odin or Behemoth encounters. You all know how insane it is now. Now imagine XI styled summons instead of smaller Egis...

[Ardan]

You both need to read the article addressing why the dev team decided to go with the design of the Egis that they did.

I don't have the direct link, but what they basically said:

1. Since there are multiple summoners, they don't want EVERYONE to be summoning THE Ifrit (for example.) So each person learns how to summon an "essence" of Ifrit. Thus, the Ifrit-Egi. They did not want them to be smaller "copies" of the same Ifrit model...like the summons are in XI.

2. They felt if the summons were like the ones in XI, it'd be very annoying (and possibly straining for people's computers) to have 50 garudas and ifrits and titans on your screen in a FATE like with Odin or Behemoth encounters. You all know how insane it is now. Now imagine XI styled summons instead of smaller Egis...

These are basic, logical points that people who do want SMN changed aesthetically don't seem to understand and I don't know why.

[Spellbinder]

These are basic, logical points that people who do want SMN changed aesthetically don't seem to understand and I don't know why.

We understand just fine. But having Egi that were the size of, say a Hyur or a Roegadyn, isn't going to cause the game to collapse into itself like the Hunt currently does. Also, as I've mentioned in previous threads, changing the size of monsters and spell effects is not without precedent, as they did just that in patches 1.16 and 1.17 because people complained that monsters weren't "intimidating" enough, and spells didn't look "flashy" enough.

Smn is fine the way it is.

- Food doesn't affect our pets.
- It's been confirmed recently by one of the forum reps that spell speed doesn't affect our pets, making the stat as well as our passive trait Enhanced Pet Actions (+20% spell speed) worthless for them.
- Spell speed also has no affect on DoTs (i.e. our main source of damage), making it even more worthless.
- Garuda's Contagion questionably overshadows Ifrit despite the developer's feeble attempts to increase its potency, and could potentially overshadow any future Egi we receive.
- Enkindle has been known to, on occasion, not activate (and I'm talking about before the recent bug they fixed). This results in wasting a five minute cooldown that just barely compares to the potency of Flare, and that's after using Rouse and Spur in conjunction to boost its strength by 40%.

I'm not saying we need an overhaul, but there are some very fundamental problems with Summoner.

[skaterger]

- Food doesn't affect our pets.
- It's been confirmed recently by one of the forum reps that spell speed doesn't affect our pets, making the stat as well as our passive trait Enhanced Pet Actions (+20% spell speed) worthless for them.
- Spell speed also has no affect on DoTs (i.e. our main source of damage), making it even more worthless.
- Garuda's Contagion questionably overshadows Ifrit despite the developer's feeble attempts to increase its potency, and could potentially overshadow any future Egi we receive.
- Enkindle has been known to, on occasion, not activate (and I'm talking about before the recent bug they fixed). This results in wasting a five minute cooldown that just barely compares to the potency of Flare, and that's after using Rouse and Spur in conjunction to boost its strength by 40%.

I'm not saying we need an overhaul, but there are some very fundamental problems with Summoner.

Obviously when I said they were "fine" I meant that in regards to the OP's concerns, namely the size/appearance of egis and the damage contribution of summons in relation to summoners in combat. But to address some of your other points

- I agree. Food buffs should apply to pets or at least give us the option to feed our pet separately.
-They have acknowledged the problem and will likely change it soon.
-There is a reason why SS/haste is one of the hardest stats to balance in MMOs. There was a period in Wow where haste was the only desirable stats for casters because it affected both cast speed and dots. A small change in haste can affect dps greatly. I have a hunch it would be the same here.
-Ifrit does 20 dps more than garuda for me in T8. I also use Ifrit for trash especially if there's a monk in the party and mobs die really quickly. Every Egi has its place. Even titan which I use to solo alexendrite maps.
-I have personally never experienced this bug, nor have I encountered the bug after 2.3 where garuda apparently fails to cast Contagion or aerial slash. But I have always trained myself to spam Contagion when miasma is at 3/4 cast bar so that Contagion hits immediately after bio.

Again these are mainly bugs and QOL issues, not really what the OP is alluding to.

As for the size of the Egi, doesn't really make a difference for me. I suppose they could make it the size of the felguard for warlocks in wow, though I can potentially see how it's size and elaborate spell effects some are clamouring for (aka ff10 style) can make it impossible to see some things in fights. And no, I don't like to turn off spell effects.

I also dislike the idea of having you control your pet as much as controlling the summoner. As things stand, it is challenging enough to optimize your dot rotation while micromanaging your pet and it's abilities. To control your pet like a second character would make it the hardest class to play. Well, maybe if they made summoner the highest dps... just maybe.

[Spellbinder]

-They have acknowledged the problem and will likely change it soon.

Assuming you're referring to spell speed and pets...

Greetings,

By design, pets aren't affected by their master’s spell speed, and there aren't plans to change that at this time. The benefits of the trait Enhanced Pet Actions apply to the master, and will not apply a spell speed bonus to your pet.

As for Ifrit, more often than not, I hear the caveat of "well, when there's a warrior or monk in the party..." as to the reason for why Ifrit can edge out Garuda in a handful of situations. We shouldn't need help from other Jobs to give incentive to change between the different Egi. I shudder to think what will happen when we have more of them if a better balance isn't struck.

It's probably strange but I'm going to use pokemon as an example to explain my ideas for the future to come. Right now Ifrit egi is in every way a Charmander, a pre-evolved pokemon. Titan is close to a Geodude, and Garuda is similar to a Pidgey, even in their abilities they can be compared, and I'm guessing when they are added Leviathan will be a Squirtle and Ramuh a Pikachu. As the level cap grows, I'm hoping our summoners abilities will grow too, lore-wise I mean, to take on the giant dragons/other big baddies coming our way. To me, it would be pretty silly to take on one of those legendary Pokemon with a CHARMANDER, so as the summoners become more powerful, they would become able to extract larger amounts of essence from the primals, and essentially, we could have evolved forms of the egis we have now, with stronger abilities and forms. No not HUGE primals, still referencing Pokemon here, the final evolved form of Charmander is still only about the height of a human.

I've heard the idea of "evolution" floated around several times since the game's release. And while I do find the idea interesting, I also recall a reply from the forum reps stating that the developers have no intentions of allowing our Egi to "grow" or change at any point in the future, and that they would take our feedback into consideration when designing new ones (although I doubt it).

[Estevo]

It's probably strange but I'm going to use pokemon as an example to explain my ideas for the future to come. Right now Ifrit egi is in every way a Charmander, a pre-evolved pokemon. Titan is close to a Geodude, and Garuda is similar to a Pidgey, even in their abilities they can be compared, and I'm guessing when they are added Leviathan will be a Squirtle and Ramuh a Pikachu. As the level cap grows, I'm hoping our summoners abilities will grow too, lore-wise I mean, to take on the giant dragons/other big baddies coming our way. To me, it would be pretty silly to take on one of those legendary Pokemon with a CHARMANDER, so as the summoners become more powerful, they would become able to extract larger amounts of essence from the primals, and essentially, we could have evolved forms of the egis we have now, with stronger abilities and forms. No not HUGE primals, still referencing Pokemon here, the final evolved form of Charmander is still only about the height of a human.

[Estevo]

I've heard the idea of "evolution" floated around several times since the game's release. And while I do find the idea interesting, I also recall a reply from the forum reps stating that the developers have no intentions of allowing our Egi to "grow" or change at any point in the future, and that they would take our feedback into consideration when designing new ones (although I doubt it).

More egis is fine, but by itself, It's not enough to make me excited to level up and progress, which I think are important factors in ANY rpg, mmo or not. I've left many mmos simply because the progression is uninteresting and there's nothing to see from character growth besides stats. As the saying goes, quality over quantity, I don't just want more skills and pets, I want growth and signs that I as a summoner are evolving, along with my powers. I think the same idea applies to all the jobs.


Just my two cents

[Akiza]

More egis is fine, but by itself, It's not enough to make me excited to level up and progress, which I think are important factors in ANY rpg, mmo or not. I've left many mmos simply because the progression is uninteresting and there's nothing to see from character growth besides stats. As the saying goes, quality over quantity, I don't just want more skills and pets, I want growth and signs that I as a summoner are evolving, along with my powers. I think the same idea applies to all the jobs.


Just my two cents

Changing the appearance and animations of spells and abilities like making the Egis evolve with powerful new abilities and changing appearance to resemble the Primals at the scale of a Hyur is about the quality of progression while increasing ilvl gear and stats is about the quantity of progression.

[Akiza]

Allowing the Egis to evolve with stronger abilities and resemble the the Primals scaled down to human height is about the quality of progression while getting new ilvl gear and increasing stats is about the quantity of progression.