Bards need a buff

[Lollie]

As stated above all dps jobs have utility, and their comparative dps to utility is balanced out. Throwing out the argument that ranged have to dodge less since this new round of content pretty much throws the book at them, if you want brd to do more dmg then you should also be advocating for the other dps to have the same utility as brd or closer to it.

Ie get rid of antibody for everyone
Make mnk silence 100% proc with normal diminishing returns
Make drg feight actually work on bosses

[Akesis]

First to adress the bold, the vast majority of people working on SCoB are in progression parties(at least on my server), not t9 farm parties. So making dps buffon a class based on the a small percentage of the player base that is bored and wants an ego boost isn't going to happen. Also, for what possible reason do you need for a dps boost other than to say your not the bottom if your clearing the most difficult content. You could clear t8 with a group of only bard dps on the damage you're doing.

Now the other stuff:
1) Peaon's - How is this junk? Maybe I dont know, but I bard t8 sense we only need the one tank, but our monk/drg ask for Peaons' on the 3rd set of towers every time. Our group has been runing for about 8 weeks now, so some of our dps have gotten very weighted skill-speed sets atm, and dont have to option to switch around.

2) Ballad - issue adressed by the fact that it's bold, although granted our healers never ask for it now either. And before they only asked in case they died.

3) Foes - agreed it's good.

So still 3 viable options, at least for my group. But I MT everything else, so I don't always know the situation. t8 is the only turn Ive ever heard them ask for Peaons as well. Either way, my view doesnt change, bard has the most mobility, most usefull support to the majority of the player base. You can't really argue monks/drg support and "dmg while moving" when really its:
Dmg While Moving***


*** When within 3y of target

Edit cause of post limit

Your first point: You just said it yourself. People are playing in non-optimal gear and still progressing. In 99% of all MMO's, classes are tuned and balanced at MAX gear level at near optimal play. Progression parties have no clue what their dps can and should be. You cant have an apples-to-apples discussion about dps in a progression group there is too much RNG with who has what gear. The numbers and the discussion that I am having is based on MAX gear and near optimal play. This is the only way that you can compare jobs.

1) Paeon returns 30 tp every 5 seconds. With some math, it takes 30 seconds for your melee to gain access to 2 abilities that they would have had to wait longer to gain access to. It is roughly a 2-5 dps increase to the melee if it is sang multiple times in a fight. Foe will increase the raid's damage buy a lot more then that. Unless someone has died, Foe has priority. Your melee needs to learn how to control their TP.

2) agreed, situational at best. hints the "meh" and .5 of a usefull ability.



Both of the melee jobs have gap closers and ways to continue their dps while moving... is it optimal? no. They can however keep dps on moving mobs or have an extremely minimal down time to get to a different mob.

I think you're neglecting Foe's contribution to DoM in your party. Foe's can be quite a decent sustained buff if played constantly, and it is by rights attached to BRD if talking about class balance and justification for bringing a class.

Also, BRD can do pretty close to those 450s that DRG/SMN/BLM can pull if buffed with DRG. If you buff BRD DPS, discounting all their other major advantages outside of their low-ish damage not counting Foe's, DRG BRD BRD caster will become a pretty ridiculous comp and upset the current balance the DPS have, which is pretty good.

My 45-85 dps spread between all of the jobs includes all possible buffs that can be in the party. There are only a small handful of bards who have ever posted above 415 dps and those numbers usually include a second BRD in the group as well as a drg. I will ask it to a second person. Please link me a parse of a BRD doing close to 450 dps. By close I mean 445+ in a raid, not a 2 min parse on a dummy. I know personally, I have never seen one over 420... no where near 450-500 dps.

[Alcyon1]

If you want to get technical. Which, I can see that you do. Lets look at all of the DD jobs....

BRDs has 4 support abilities (Ballad, Paeon, Foe, Mantra). Can deal damage on the move. low multi target dps.
SMN has 4 support abilities (Virus, Resurrection, Eye for an Eye, Physic(healing as a DD is supporting the raid)). Can deal damage on the move. High multi target dps (if they don't insta-die).
BLM has 4 support abilities ( Virus, Eye for an Eye, Physic(healing as a DD is supporting the raid), Apocatastasis). They also have Atherial and can port to safety. Can deal damage on the move. High multi target dps.
DRG has 2 support abilities (Disembowel, Mantra). Can deal damage on the move. Can also stun. Middle of the road Multi-target dps. extremely high single target dps.
MNK has 2 support abilities (Mantra, Dragon Kick). Can deal damage on the move. Can also stun. Middle of the road Multi-target dps. extremely high single target dps.

BRD can silence (hi T2), has a good burst (don't tell me the opposite) and can deal FULL DAMAGE on the move and is ranged. Seriously, telling us "BLM can deal damage on the move" is a big joke, you're making it sounds like if the fights where you need to move a lot doesn't change anything. Stuns are useless in the new coil.

@Akesis : please, control their TP ? Seriously ?

[Black91CRX]

Bard needs love. All we ever got was a nerf.

[Akesis]

BRD can silence (hi T2), has a good burst (don't tell me the opposite) and can deal FULL DAMAGE on the move and is ranged. Seriously, telling us "BLM can deal damage on the move" is a big joke, you're making it sounds like if the fights where you need to move a lot doesn't change anything. Stuns are useless in the new coil.

A MNK could solo silence T2. It took 2 BRDs, 1 BRD 1 PLD or 2 PLD to get them without a MNK. Not as useful as a MNK on that fight now is it? Thank you for adding to my point, I had forgotten about that example. The BRD can do "full damage while running around" argument is almost as bad as BRDs are a support class. Even with running around the entire fight a BLM who knows what they are doing with their job will out parse a BRD by 45+ dps with their new buff. DRGs and MNKs can both run around the mob like idiots the whole fight and I don't hear you mentioning them needing a nerf for movement.

Sure BRD does good burst. Amazing on a raid boss that isn't dead within the first 2 mins? BLM's burst is the highest in the game. SMNs burst can be higher also (situational of course) but, it can still be higher.

[Logistical]

[LunarEmerald]

Bard is the only job with instant burst. Everything else has wind up. All bard does is pop cds

[Askarya]

Bards are fine.. Yes maybe a monk does 80-90 dps more on t8 which is like hitting a dummy. But in EVERY other Turn Bards are way closer, although we're still last. If any class with comparable gear is lower than a Bard in any of the 4 Turns he's doing something wrong (sometimes it can be just fucking up your rotation even once that let's you drop below a bard).

But still with all the Utility we have it's fine. We will always have a safe spot in raids because of this.

I can pull 398 on T9 and yet I am the bottom of the list.

I would like to see a parse of that. :P Either that's a typo or you forget to add that this wasn't a kill attempt :P

15 dps is a large margin... top end FC's sit people (and sometimes discharge them) for this kind of disparity within their respective jobs.

Top FCs also know what which class is cappable of with the gear the people have. :P

Also, BRD can do pretty close to those 450s that DRG/SMN/BLM can pull if buffed with DRG.

EDIT: uhm yeah i was wrong here, a bard can get to 450 with a DRG in the group. My bad :x


TL;DR: Bards are fine, stop crying.


P.S.: Even if i say Bards are are fine i wouldn't mind if we get a buff :P

[Viridiana]

If you count in the contirbution to other classes from Foes we get higher. Without that nope a Bard won't get the 450 that easily, maybe in t8 with full BiS and a second Bard which handles the songs, otherwise no. never.

If you're going to count Foe damage toward BRD, you have to subtract out Disembowel damage and give it back to DRG. Otherwise you're just being inconsistent. Pretty sure that takes us back below 450, no?

[Tranquil]

I can pull 398 on T9 and yet I am the bottom of the list.

You could have had me until this point.