Who is gonna raid now with the iLvl 110 gear handed to people??

[Krr]

what do you define as "current"? isn't "Thou shalt not covet" Old Testament? if you need a Commandment to warn against it doesn't that mean it has existed for a really long time?

Current in this case meaning the systems of market that have existed for millions of years, so I guess "current" is a bad turn of phrase, yeah. Covetous human societies have existed for a long, long time. They were awful viewed as awful, poisonous things anathema to our survival, which is why we wrote books warning against them. Sadly, those beliefs were repurposed a long, long time ago.

Still, we have developed many societies that didn't rely on accumulation and greed as the main mechanism of human survival. We also like to conveniently forget about them or write them off as savages when our forefathers conquered them in the name of...well, having more land to "survive" with.

[cryptic_angel]

Uh so HM Spine wasn't exclusionary? Look bud, you can keep telling everyone what you meant while they poke more and more holes in what you're saying, I don't care. Though I don't know how you're going to beat the drum forWoW and it's raid content while sobbing about how easy 14 is and somehow NOT characterize that as a call for more exclusion.

If you think I'm putting words in your mouth then you must not know what you're saying.

I made ONE post about difficulty and yet disregard the rest of what I have said. Sure, HC fights are exclusionary by nature of skill, raid composition, and resources. You can cherry pick your arguments all you like, it's plain as day to see that.

You can have both casual friendly bosses and exclusionary bosses within one raid. Look at icc 25 back from WotLK. The first wing was a loot pinata where the most casual of players could enter. The last boss of each wing after that was much more challenging with the LK being the most difficult fight. But please, keep going on about one post I made and disregard all the other points, it seems to be your strong suit.

If you don't care, stop replying then. Really simple.

I care about the raiding scene and what will keep bleeding edge raiders in this game. I don't care about friends and family groups that barely get T8 down one week from the third binding coil being released. I don't play with those people.

If you think ff14 is OMGWHATISTHIS difficult, great, good for you. I don't find it that difficult and your interpretations of what I say are just that, your interpretation.

So you're solution is kick non-raiders to the curb and deny them any sense of progression unless they raid?

Non-raiders have progression. They went from ilvl90 gear (myth gear) to ilvl100 gear (soldiery gear).

Current in this case meaning the systems of market that have existed for millions of years, so I guess "current" is a bad turn of phrase, yeah. Covetous human societies have existed for a long, long time. They were awful viewed as awful, poisonous things anathema to our survival, which is why we wrote books warning against them. Sadly, those beliefs were repurposed a long, long time ago.

Still, we have developed many societies that didn't rely on accumulation and greed as the main mechanism of human survival. We also like to conveniently forget about them or write them off as savages when our forefathers conquered them in the name of...well, having more land to "survive" with.

If you go back far enough, people coveted other people over signs of fertility such as big hips and large mammary glands.

[SendohJin]

Person A works 40 hours a week and feels entitled to a good paycheck.

Person B works half the time and wants 90% of the same pay for doing half of the same work.

It's not subjective, it is quantifiable and can be laid out in simple logical terms.

first, gaming isn't a job.

second, it takes X amount of development hours to design High Allagan armor, it takes Y amount of development hours to design Soldiery armor. only one group can have X+Y. and i'm pretty sure Y/[X+Y] is not 90%.

[Worm]

Well lets see.. The history of MMOs has showed us what? Oh that's right every MMO with in depth large amounts of high end challenging raid content are STILL AROUND. Also making profit and retaining a subscription based model.

Don't you feel even slightly disingenuous calling EQ1 or EQ2 a 'subscription based model'. How does paying an extra 10 bucks for a second attack animation for your OP vampire race qualify as subscription in your mind? Also pretending ToR's issue was just raiding. Honestly, you can make your argument without these crazy untruths.

If you think ff14 is OMGWHATISTHIS difficult, great, good for you. I don't find it that difficult and your interpretations of what I say are just that, your interpretation.

For a guy who gets so crazy about people putting words in his mouth you sure like to do it yourself. You're just all over the place. Try to make a different thread about raiding in general if you want, but in the context of them deincentivizing raiding yes the content being easy is probably a big reason of why it's not a big deal to the developers. We're talking about where the game is now, not your ideal MMORPG. The content's easy so it's not that big of a crime they pass out some of the stuff.

[Zarzak]

You can have both casual friendly bosses and exclusionary bosses within one raid. Look at icc 25 back from WotLK. The first wing was a loot pinata where the most casual of players could enter. The last boss of each wing after that was much more challenging with the LK being the most difficult fight.

The MMO term that would sum this up nicely.

Gatekeeper mobs/events. Every MMO with half decent raiding has them in pretty much every expansion. The fight that makes even the best guilds fall flat on their face and is the gatekeeper between the low end raid guild friendly content and the content that is going to punish you every step of the way. Often being a bit harder than some of the fights to follow.

Case and point... The Rathe Council. Anyone who was around for that knows exactly what I'm talking about.

Don't you feel even slightly disingenuous calling EQ1 or EQ2 a 'subscription based model'. How does paying an extra 10 bucks for a second attack animation for your OP vampire race qualify as subscription in your mind? Also pretending ToR's issue was just raiding. Honestly, you can make your argument without these crazy untruths.

Uhh... Do you even play EQ? You can't even wear gear or gain anything past 1k AA (there are over 12k) without a sub. Their "silver membership" free shenanigans is a outright lie and no one is at level cap without a sub. That's like saying WoW is F2P because you can get level 20 without a sub.

I'll log on tonight and raid in EQ on my silver.. Oh wait I have 10k hp/mana because I can't wear my gear that puts me at 120k hp/mana. Yep totally F2P.

EQ2 follows a similar model. Limiting spells, AA, etc.

[Divine_Intervention]

OP definitely has a point. my friend hit 50 yesterday on his first class (scholar if anyone's interested lmao). He hit the hunts, did his relic quest, upgraded to zenith, bought a couple of soldiery items and is nooow... ilvl 91. All in the space of a day or two. I'm ilvl 93, have done garuda and titan ex, all hard modes, he's not even touched hard mode dungeons yet, i've done coil 1 - 4, attempted 5. Grinded my ass off for the last couple months to get where I am now. I mean i'm happy for the guy, he's a good friend and it's good to be able to run extremes with him, but seriously square enix, this is some mad undermining of peoples' effort.

Technically i could have unsubbed for the last couple months, come on when hunts came out and got the same gear progress in a day.

[cryptic_angel]

first, gaming isn't a job.

second, it takes X amount of development hours to design High Allagan armor, it takes Y amount of development hours to design Soldiery armor. only one group can have X+Y. and i'm pretty sure Y/[X+Y] is not 90%.

It's called a metaphore, I think we all know that gaming is not a job. Please stop making such moot points.

Takes almost 0% development time to increase ilvl110 HA to ilvl115 HA. This would all be a non issue if all HA gear was ilvl 115

[Worm]

Takes almost 0% development time to increase ilvl110 HA to ilvl115 HA. This would all be a non issue if all HA gear was ilvl 115

Haha, how petty can you get?

Uhh... Do you even play EQ? You can't even wear gear or gain anything past 1k AA (there are over 12k) without a sub. Their "silver membership" free shenanigans is a outright lie and no one is at level cap without a sub. That's like saying WoW is F2P because you can get level 20 without a sub.

EQ2 follows a similar model. Limiting spells, AA, etc.

Hold on so isn't TOR still going strong with the "Subscription Model" too then? I'm pretty sure you can't use purple rarity gear without a sub.

[lalmvpkobe]

This thread is pointless. The i110 gear only has 2 purposes. Stat increase for the purpose of raiding and personal desire/aesthetics(looks/satisfaction of being i110). The i110 gear only has a functional purpose in raiding content and someone who just wanted it for reason 2 is better off not raiding in the first place. Obtaining gear in this manner allows new players to raid in a reasonable time frame otherwise the population of raiders would decline dramatically. Imagine if it took a new level 50 8 months to go through the same process of gathering darklight etc and slowly inching their way to a reasonable level. Start thinking and stop complaining if people see your Allagan gear they know your a raider so stop being childish over the minor stat differences of your peers.

[Zarzak]

Haha, how petty can you get?


Hold on so isn't TOR still going strong with the "Subscription Model" too then?

Going strong? Lol one would pay their subs and has been deemed a failure if you READ.