Who is gonna raid now with the iLvl 110 gear handed to people??

[Dwill]

I'm glad we arent being forced to do SCoB to get 110 gear, since there are so many awful/impatient players who will not run with first timers. Then begins again the DPS-length queues that someone with a real life knows theres better things to be doing.

Real life excuse died years ago, try something new. A lot of raiders play even less than the so call "I have a life" casuals.

difference between the two is completely subjective. complaining about i110 seems spoiled when there's only one way to get i115.

That excuse would hold weights if there was more than one single piece of gear that is i115.

[Worm]

Let's be real, a lot of casuals are like migratory birds who stay for awhile until they no longer find the game fun but not until after they leave the game an empty husk without any depth of gameplay due to this very excuse.

Please Dwill tell us more about exactly how all MMORPGs work and how you know the million dollar formula for success.

[Nel_Celestine]

It's pretty simple, unlimited Sands is a mistake and a handout.

A good balance of both casual and hardcore content is required for a game to achieve maximum success yet anyone who dare suggests anything hardcore is quickly shut down by the casual player base under the excuse that they are deemed more important than the hardcore because of their numbers.

If you look not only at what I've posted in the past but listen to my podcast as well, you will see I am supportive of more options for endgame and that the sands behind handed out like candy was a mistake especially with people cheating their way to get them asap. However, non-raiders (Casual and mainstream alike) want to feel a sense of progression, not a barrier. Raiders however are the bleeding edge of content. I mean heck, they technically got a HARDER second coil this patch. Considering this is the THIRD patch that's a rather big deal.

[cryptic_angel]

Are you even reading? I'm saying you're whining about the raid content not being exclusionary enough while saying it's bad that raids are being deincentivized. Why's it matter if they pass out a piece or two from raids that people are probably mostly not running as a choice not as an aspect of actually being unable to do it. It's like you're so focused on massaging your ego you're just saying whatever. It's not so much about the game as it is you aggrandizing yourself on a forum.

Also if you think you're losing something by not having to wipe for weeks on HM Spine then by all means, WoW is always going to be there.

I never said raids themselves should be exclusionary, you're putting words in my mouth. I think raids should be very accessible with the first few bosses being similar to CT difficulty and the last few bosses being harder than T9.

That's not what we are talking about here. We are not talking about raid accessibility. We are talking about incentives to raid.

Non-raiding players get new content every single patch. Raiders are getting four bosses every six months. Now the two groups are of course not mutually exclusive, but most raiders I know primarily play for raids. When raiders have less incentive to raid, you end up with an end game that looks like GW2. I loved GW2, but the end game for PvE was terrible. I don't want to see the end game raiding scene in ff14 flounder like it did in other games.

difference between the two is completely subjective. complaining about i110 seems spoiled when there's only one way to get i115.

Person A works 40 hours a week and feels entitled to a good paycheck.

Person B works half the time and wants 90% of the same pay for doing half of the same work.

It's not subjective, it is quantifiable and can be laid out in simple logical terms.

[Nel_Celestine]

I don't want to see the end game raiding scene in ff14 flounder like it did in other games.

So you're solution is kick non-raiders to the curb and deny them any sense of progression unless they raid?

[Worm]

I never said raids themselves should be exclusionary, you're putting words in my mouth. I think raids should be very accessible with the first few bosses being similar to CT difficulty and the last few bosses being harder than T9.

Uh so HM Spine wasn't exclusionary? Look bud, you can keep telling everyone what you meant while they poke more and more holes in what you're saying, I don't care. Though I don't know how you're going to beat the drum for WoW and it's raid content while sobbing about how easy 14 is and somehow NOT characterize that as a call for more exclusion.

If you think I'm putting words in your mouth then you must not know what you're saying.

[SendohJin]

Interestingly, there is no recorded innate human nature to "covet" outside of current capitalist society structures.

what do you define as "current"? isn't "Thou shalt not covet" Old Testament? if you need a Commandment to warn against it doesn't that mean it has existed for a really long time?

[Krr]

WoW during its prime in WotLK had 12 millions members, much more than BC so you can guess who came along: casuals. There was actually a really good balance of hardcore content and casual content but the casuals were on a constant whining spree that the stuff was too hard, they should have access to all the rest of the content while not doing half the work for it. Blizzard fell for this crap and now, 2 expansions later siting at 7.x millions subs to date have they realized their mistakes and now they are trying to fix some parts of the mess they created it in their next expansion.

I can't even begin to tell you how revisionist this narrative is. Post-Wrath WoW wasn't too easy; it was too twelve-damn boring and dry and Ghostcrawler couldn't get his head out of his rear when people told him the talent revamp totally ruined several specs.
The godawful lazy nostalgia design and obsessive recycling of dungeons and bosses nobody wanted to see or cared about again is what screwed up post-Cataclysm WoW, not some mystic plague of casuals that wanted to do ICC10 right before it became obsolete.

[Zarzak]

You really love showing off don't you? I bet you're going to come up with some old game that only you have played and we don't understand.

You still didn't answer my question, instead you throw some pointless internet meme at me.

The only thing they changed is twisters because people still complain about latency. Now I have a question for you. How about the 80% who can't even get to twisters? Your telling me the event is too hard?


And since you ask lets see off the top of my head. Games that have raiding actually above and beyond group content and difficulty....

EverQuest - Released 1999... Still turning a profit and releasing content on a subscription based system
Everquest 2 - Released 2004... Still turning a profit and releasing content on a subscription based system
World of Warcraft - Released 2004. Likely the worst thing to ever happen to MMOs since it started the slippery slope that lead to this even being a discussion. Still harder
FFXI - Released 2002... Still turning a profit and releasing content on a subscription based system
Rift - Released 2011... Actually only legit F2P MMO I've heard of (aka doesn't lock content or any features behind a sub or put you at a disadvantage if you don't pay). Ridiculously hard content.




Couple MMOs who have had this "who needs high end raiding" attitude.

Star Wars: ToR - Released 2011.. Such a failure had to go to a F2P model within 5 months.
Age of Conan - Released 2008.. Failed. "Player reactions were overwhelmingly negative in the months following the release" "total lack of end-game content."



let me know what MMOs you would like to see added.

So you're solution is kick non-raiders to the curb and deny them any sense of progression unless they raid?

Well lets see... a sense of progression you say.

Step 1: Gaining levels 1-50
Step 2: Doing dungeons for the "started 50" gear (whatever ilvl currently drops). Also starting your relic
Step 3: Acquiring ilvl 100 through currency from doing before mentioned dungeons.
Step 4: Finishing Relic.


So your right if you can't go from 100 to 110 without raiding you clearly have NO SENSE OF PROGRESSION. Omg I totally see your point. Up until ilvl 110 there was no progression to be had oh my.

Please Dwill tell us more about exactly how all MMORPGs work and how you know the million dollar formula for success.

Well lets see.. The history of MMOs has showed us what? Oh that's right every MMO with in depth large amounts of high end challenging raid content are STILL AROUND. Also making profit and retaining a subscription based model.

[Nel_Celestine]

So your right if you can't go from 100 to 110 without raiding you clearly have NO SENSE OF PROGRESSION. Omg I totally see your point. Up until ilvl 110 there was no progression to be had oh my.

Oh I'm sorry, perhaps because this is a catch up patch, http://dengekionline.com/elem/000/000/881/881497/ , that means instead it should be for raiders to catch up a lead?


To a certain extent, yes. Just as we have continued to implement the "Echo" in our patches, not everything is always focused on the latest end-game. But whenever the maximum item level is raised in a patch, we do need to include powerful items and the appropriately-difficult contents to match. And in the following patch, we'll want to fill in the power gap created by this increase with a variety of fun contents, such as what we did in 2.3. That is the basic patch cycle with FFXIV.