Do you want to play Final Fantasy XIV?

[giftforce]

Yea I agree, I saw the armorery system as a really unique class system for an MMO, I mean yea it needed tweaks and fixes, so did all of the mechanics. But at least it was different than filling out another god damn talent tree, and the ability to literally make your own kind of class was a very appealling feature. Yoshi's pigeon-holing everyone into job roles because the playerbase is so timid and unimaginative that they need their hand held through the first 3/4's of the game.

Good job SE, you went from releasing a decade-lasting MMO which brought innovative and interesting features to the market, which became staples of any MMO, to caving under player pressure and making another "dine-and-dash" MMO. Get in, get max level, do some endgame, /quit.

Yoshi was perhaps the worst person to put in charge of FFXIV. He seems like a dedicated person and has some knowledge of the MMO industry. But his attributes start and end there as far as Im concerned. As an advisory role, sure, he would make a worthwhile addition, but he doesn't even understand the game he is supposed to be fixing.

If you look at the basis of FFXIV, you see a player-driven economy (crafted gear being the best in game), community-based gameplay (linkshells and the would-be-released player-run companies), and an active combat system. These are all responses to problems in other MMOs.

The crafting system is also a parallel to the Vanguard system, so it is clear that FFXIV was not developed in a vacuum, but developed under the influence of the MMO industry. Anyone who says FFXIV lacked direction and meaningful development obviously aren't looking hard enough.

If you want FFXI-2 or WoW, then obviously FFXIV won't appeal to you, but that doesn't mean the foundational concept is wrong and needs discarding. It just means you should go play WoW or FFXI or any other Everquest-clone.

There were some things that went wrong with FFXIV, but it seemed like those errors were due to a lack of time and feedback implementation rather than a stubborn unwillingness to better the game.

I honestly hate the direction Yoshi has taken the game. I hate it so much.

[Sephr]

And yet, here you are, much to the dismay of many.

Not even going to have a crack at the ridiculous Tanaka-worship going on here, but he had a shot and he totally, absolutely and unquestionably ruined it. The game he turfed out was a steaming pile, and he was completely out of touch with what the MMO community wanted (His ideas for the market ward system looked like a damn train wreck from day 1, he expected the community to go there, barter and act as if it was the real world? Sorry but that's not how games work.)

Yoshida seems like he's pretty much the last hope for this game to be pulled out of the gutter and into something remotely playable, but sure, you play the battered housewife, because at the end of the day it won't change anything.

Tanaka managed to launch possibly the biggest failure in Square-enix's history (yes, there was probably pressure from above, but he certainly seemed to continue his stupid archaic distant attitude all the way through development and 'beta'). He sucked, and sadly they put him back on FFXI rather than ditch him.

If you want FFXI-2 or WoW, then obviously FFXIV won't appeal to you, but that doesn't mean the foundational concept is wrong and needs discarding. It just means you should go play WoW or FFXI or any other Everquest-clone.

It didn't appeal to ANYONE except the hardcore few, do you not see that? Do you really think telling people to go play something else is going to make this a successful game?

The crafting system is also a parallel to the Vanguard system, so it is clear that FFXIV was not developed in a vacuum, but developed under the influence of the MMO industry. Anyone who says FFXIV lacked direction and meaningful development obviously aren't looking hard enough.

Hilarious. You shouldn't have to 'look hard' to find the direction, that's the freaking point. You should be sent in a direction by the game and it should be somewhat obvious what your general goals are, in FFXIV there were none.

If you look at the basis of FFXIV, you see a player-driven economy (crafted gear being the best in game), community-based gameplay (linkshells and the would-be-released player-run companies), and an active combat system. These are all responses to problems in other MMOs.

If it ain't broken, don't fix it. Innovate for sure, but don't just blindly try and tackle what you foresee as a problem for the sake of it. Their 'fix' was total crap.

There were some things that went wrong with FFXIV, but it seemed like those errors were due to a lack of time and feedback implementation rather than a stubborn unwillingness to better the game.

Whilst I agree time could've made the game better, I don't think it could ever have reached it's full potential under Tanaka.

[Belial]

And yet, here you are, much to the dismay of many.

Not even going to have a crack at the ridiculous Tanaka-worship going on here, but he had a shot and he totally, absolutely and unquestionably ruined it. The game he turfed out was a steaming pile, and he was completely out of touch with what the MMO community wanted (His ideas for the market ward system looked like a damn train wreck from day 1, he expected the community to go there, barter and act as if it was the real world? Sorry but that's not how games work.)

Yoshida seems like he's pretty much the last hope for this game to be pulled out of the gutter and into something remotely playable, but sure, you play the battered housewife, because at the end of the day it won't change anything.

Tanaka managed to launch possibly the biggest failure in Square-enix's history (yes, there was probably pressure from above, but he certainly seemed to continue his stupid archaic distant attitude all the way through development and 'beta'). He sucked, and sadly they put him back on FFXI rather than ditch him.



It didn't appeal to ANYONE except the hardcore few, do you not see that? Do you really think telling people to go play something else is going to make this a successful game?



Hilarious. You shouldn't have to 'look hard' to find the direction, that's the freaking point. You should be sent in a direction by the game and it should be somewhat obvious what your general goals are, in FFXIV there were none.



If it ain't broken, don't fix it. Innovate for sure, but don't just blindly try and tackle what you foresee as a problem for the sake of it. Their 'fix' was total crap.

Sounds like another "please hold my hand" and "I can't possibly be bothered to explore on my own, please tell me where to go, what to do and how to do it, so I can mind-numbingly pick away at something."

To discredit a game designer when you've never in your life seen the finished product is asinine.
But since you're amazing, and know all about MMOs and what people want, please, provide a link to all the video games you have worked on, and I will gladly link a list of Tanaka's work... we'll see who has more successful games under their belt, mmk?

[Sephr]

Sounds like another "please hold my hand" and "I can't possibly be bothered to explore on my own, please tell me where to go, what to do and how to do it, so I can mind-numbingly pick away at something."

To discredit a game designer when you've never in your life seen the finished product is asinine.
But since you're amazing, and know all about MMOs and what people want, please, provide a link to all the video games you have worked on, and I will gladly link a list of Tanaka's work... we'll see who has more successful games under their belt, mmk?

Can't help but feel there's a breakdown in communication if you think having some sense of progression through a game's areas (and a story to accompany) would equal hand-holding? Why would I explore the vast emptiness of FFXIV's zones when there's nothing to find? I don't understand the point I'm afraid.

How ridiculous, criticising someone's work = I can produce better? Furthermore, the release date of a product should be it's finish date, if you're at all familiar with the world we live in. Paying for a product for someone to come and tweek it in your house every few months to polish it up from a steaming pile is not good business.

Honestly I don't even know what you're getting at with your post, can't people criticise without having a background in the industry? And yet here you all are saying Yoshida's not going to produce a good game despite the fact we're more likely to see a finished product from him?

[Eldaena]

Can't help but feel there's a breakdown in communication if you think having some sense of progression through a game's areas (and a story to accompany) would equal hand-holding? Why would I explore the vast emptiness of FFXIV's zones when there's nothing to find? I don't understand the point I'm afraid.

How ridiculous, criticising someone's work = I can produce better? Furthermore, the release date of a product should be it's finish date, if you're at all familiar with the world we live in. Paying for a product for someone to come and tweek it in your house every few months to polish it up from a steaming pile is not good business.

Honestly I don't even know what you're getting at with your post, can't people criticise without having a background in the industry? And yet here you all are saying Yoshida's not going to produce a good game despite the fact we're more likely to see a finished product from him?

It's true that you cannot fully understand something looking through a window and not really being in it, but on the same note, you don't have to know how to cook if you think food tastes bad. Nobody is arguing that there are and were problems since the release of the game and I think it's pretty much popular opinion that the game was released WAY too early. The problem is you are placing all the hate on Tanaka, as if it is entirely his fault, when that just isn't true. As gift said, he barely had a chance to mess things up and to me it felt Square Enix wanted a scape goat for their overall bad idea to release so early.

The point is Square Enix made a mistake with not having more complete before release. They've been spreading themselves too thin, like a few other companies, and it's borderline greedy. Now they are having to eat their humble pie, hopefully, and make this game right before they can even make any profit off of it.


Imagine if you were making a game for Square Enix. 1st Scenario is you have unlimited funds, unlimited staff and talent, and unlimited time. 2nd Scenario you have a limited budget due to several projects going on at once and trying to make more and more money with less cost, possibly not ideal staff for again, several other projects going on, and a time constraint. Under both pretenses, which do you think has the possibility of a better game coming out on release? Regardless of which producer, I think if they were put in either scenario they'd both have similar results.

As of late I feel Square Enix in general need to stop focusing on quantity and go to what got them here in the first place, quality. I don't think it's at all either producer's fault for the outcome of this game, but instead the backbone of their company and their current ultimate goals that are sullying their own reputation. Here's hoping those things will change.

[Kaizlu]

The problem is you are placing all the hate on Tanaka, as if it is entirely his fault, when that just isn't true. As gift said, he barely had a chance to mess things up and to me it felt Square Enix wanted a scape goat for their overall bad idea to release so early.

I think we need more "Tanaka wasn't perfect, but not everything is his fault" threads going on.

[Belial]

Can't help but feel there's a breakdown in communication if you think having some sense of progression through a game's areas (and a story to accompany) would equal hand-holding? Why would I explore the vast emptiness of FFXIV's zones when there's nothing to find? I don't understand the point I'm afraid.

How ridiculous, criticising someone's work = I can produce better? Furthermore, the release date of a product should be it's finish date, if you're at all familiar with the world we live in. Paying for a product for someone to come and tweek it in your house every few months to polish it up from a steaming pile is not good business.

Honestly I don't even know what you're getting at with your post, can't people criticise without having a background in the industry? And yet here you all are saying Yoshida's not going to produce a good game despite the fact we're more likely to see a finished product from him?

The point of my post was to point out that you lack the developing experience & behind-the-scenes know to discredit a game with seeing it's finished product. We never saw Tanaka's game, because it was pushed out to match quarterly profits. Therefore your judgements on Tanaka's version are invalid and meaningless. You don't go to a beauty pageant & judge the girl's solely on their academic skills, you can't judge a game that isn't finished. Now, I know with your condescending attitude and "know everything" mentality that it's gonna be hard for you to wrap your head around it, but try and stay with us here...

And I never said Yoshi's not going to produce a good game. I said he's not producing the game I paid for. Reading = hard mode.

[giftforce]

And yet, here you are, much to the dismay of many.

Not even going to have a crack at the ridiculous Tanaka-worship going on here, but he had a shot and he totally, absolutely and unquestionably ruined it. The game he turfed out was a steaming pile, and he was completely out of touch with what the MMO community wanted (His ideas for the market ward system looked like a damn train wreck from day 1, he expected the community to go there, barter and act as if it was the real world? Sorry but that's not how games work.)

Yoshida seems like he's pretty much the last hope for this game to be pulled out of the gutter and into something remotely playable, but sure, you play the battered housewife, because at the end of the day it won't change anything.

Tanaka managed to launch possibly the biggest failure in Square-enix's history (yes, there was probably pressure from above, but he certainly seemed to continue his stupid archaic distant attitude all the way through development and 'beta'). He sucked, and sadly they put him back on FFXI rather than ditch him.

It didn't appeal to ANYONE except the hardcore few, do you not see that? Do you really think telling people to go play something else is going to make this a successful game?

I don't think Tanaka pulled it off either, but his vision had more promise than what Yoshi promises us. As I said, different games appeal to different people, and the FFXIV concept obviously wasn't your kind of game. For many other people, that's what they wanted.

It wasn't polished, it had many flaws, but time-constraints were part of the reason those problems were never fixed. FFXIV went to sale way too quickly.

TERA was in beta before FFXIV was even in alpha and yet hasn't been released in the west yet. FFXIV was in dire need of more time. And still is.

Tanaka didn't blow it. He didn't even have a chance to.

There are many types of market systems a game can have. And FFXIV chose one type. It desperately needed work, but that isn't to say a free-market system is without hope.

The crafting classes were positioned by SE as having their own role in the game world. Hence, buying and selling were by extension positioned as a part of the game world. An auction-house would have removed this aspect of the game for crafting classes.

Im not defending the market system, because it was a very sloppy implementation, but the concept fuelling it was not as ridiculous as everyone claims. If you wanted an auction house or a WoW-clone, it would appear ridiculous, but to other people it just appears as a failure in implementation (rather than a failure in concept or vision).

FFXIV's biggest problem was having to live with the baggage of the WoW and FFXI hopefuls who wanted exact replicas of those games.

[Eekiki]

Tanaka didn't blow it. He didn't even have a chance to.

Boom. Thread over. Victory goes to gifthorse.

[Eldaena]

And yet, here you are, much to the dismay of many.

Not even going to have a crack at the ridiculous Tanaka-worship going on here, but he had a shot and he totally, absolutely and unquestionably ruined it. The game he turfed out was a steaming pile, and he was completely out of touch with what the MMO community wanted (His ideas for the market ward system looked like a damn train wreck from day 1, he expected the community to go there, barter and act as if it was the real world? Sorry but that's not how games work.)

Yoshida seems like he's pretty much the last hope for this game to be pulled out of the gutter and into something remotely playable, but sure, you play the battered housewife, because at the end of the day it won't change anything.

Tanaka managed to launch possibly the biggest failure in Square-enix's history (yes, there was probably pressure from above, but he certainly seemed to continue his stupid archaic distant attitude all the way through development and 'beta'). He sucked, and sadly they put him back on FFXI rather than ditch him.



It didn't appeal to ANYONE except the hardcore few, do you not see that? Do you really think telling people to go play something else is going to make this a successful game?



Hilarious. You shouldn't have to 'look hard' to find the direction, that's the freaking point. You should be sent in a direction by the game and it should be somewhat obvious what your general goals are, in FFXIV there were none.



If it ain't broken, don't fix it. Innovate for sure, but don't just blindly try and tackle what you foresee as a problem for the sake of it. Their 'fix' was total crap.

I disagree with a lot of your statements and feel as if you are just borderline trolling. A lot of the things I actually like about the game were there from the beginning or altered under Tanaka's leadership. I can't say if either producer is what this game calls for, and we have barely seen what either of them could do with it. A lot of people are looking towards 1.18 for Yoshida to really prove himself capable of producing this game to the standards the people playing it want. Tanaka did not completely blow it, and do you know why? Because this game is still here. People are still playing it or interested in continuing to play it due to two things: 1) For the good in the game that was already there and 2) For the potential good coming in the future for the game. All in all, the game will always be a part of both producers, failure or success and it wouldn't be here at all without Tanaka originally.