You have enough casual/fluff content now, how about that endgame progression SEnix?

[SendohJin]

I would argue a game like WoW has a much diverse audience...

"a game like WoW" or just WoW? what are "games like WoW" that is not WoW?

[Kinseykinz]

Oh come now, do you believe that to make yourself feel better?

Wildstar just released for example.... its content is already harder and already has raids in place, this challenges people for months on end and more will be added. this is how you keep a competitive community alongside "the people with lives" .... oh and... guess what our friends guild's raiding schedule is? 3 hours a night for 3 nights...

Stop pretending raiders play 8 hours a day... this game has been out a year. in that time its had NINE TURNS..... I can't even count all of them as a big deal even.

The LIFE comment is pathetic, just stop.

Both of you are wrong but for different reasons.

He's assuming that the 'hardcores', the folk mainly interested in highly tuned, you need to have solid gear+skill+teamwork type content ALSO, are out doing many of the more 'easy-going' content like Daily Dungeons,Novus weapons, Beastmen Dalies, CT, Hunts, Crafting, Gathering etc....and many of course do....but the vast majority, do not. Instead, they focus on battle content, and more specifically, battle content they find fun,challenging and/or that =rewards that help them do harder content. Which is fine. You SHOULD be able to focus on the content you wish....but complaining that there's not enough when you are purposefully choosing to not do anything else offered is wrong...esp. in a more 'casual' playstyle oriented game. So yes you're correct, many 'hardcores' sit around twiddling their thumbs bored (or simply play other things between raid times)...but that is their choice. They decided the majority of the game 'is beneath them/boring'

Those that do ALL the content all the time, do in fact play LOTS. 8 Hours+ a day would almost be needed to do everything.

But as you said, many in a static, can log in 1-2 nights a week for 2-3 hours, and then not even play the remainder of the week, and therefore, in and of itself, being 'hardcore' and raiding does not=lots of hours played.


But your side is also wrong. It is NOT SE's fault that you only personally like a small portion of this game...or find a small portion to your ability level. There are in fact, plenty of things to do....so much that if you did it all....or even just some of it, =hours a day. (Just doing your all daily roulettes would = at LEAST 2 hours of gameplay for example.....every. day). This is a more 'casual' friendly game. So getting upset that there isn't a ton of high-end high skill content, is sorta like people who love PvP style games getting upset that this game doesn't offer too much in the way of PvP. It's simply not the 'focus' content of this dev team. Sure, they provide some content in both catergories, but it's not the bread and butter of the game...nor do they want it to be.


So for those who ONLY love hardcore raiding, this was not your patch. If you are unhappy, go do something else with your RL and time. SE DID give the 'hardcore elite' something to chew on this patch though if they choose to accept it (Savage BC). But many don't like the idea because 'why do that when we get the same stuff for Normal Mode?' So...I also don't get it. You want hard content, but you want shinies more. So then it's not about the challenge but about lording over the pleebs the sexy gears you got they won't have.

But seriously, this patch was loaded with content...content that will keep most gamers very happy and busy to be honest for months to come. If you don't like it. Don't play it. But don't complain that you can't find anything to do....you can't find anything you like to do. Maybe this game isn't your thing.

[ruinedmirage]

After reading through a lot of the thread, I don't see why so many people are against adding another form of end game content. Hell, I didn't like coil because the setting seemed too sci-fi. What if they added some draconic setting type end-game similar in difficulty to coil? Maybe I'd still be playing then....

Even the size of the party is of little significance in my opinion. It could be anywhere from 4 to 24 person. As long as there is some form of VARIETY in end-game. Why is everyone against variety? Why is everyone against having more than 1 option? Basing the end-game content on the success of coil alone is ludicrous, because it's not going to appeal to everyone's tastes, whether it be the party size or just the setting. Just because a majority of the playerbase hasn't completed coil DOESN'T mean they don't want end-game content. Maybe they just don't want coil or its parameters.

[Ketsuyame]

I hear Wildstar's Endgame is challenging. Other than bitching and moaning, cancel your sub for a few months and play that. Then come back when 2.4 releases. Hopefully that would appease your appetite...

OR since your pointing out where a highly successful AAA company went "wrong"---as you pointed out, you can make your own MMO.

Last option. Enjoy the game for what it is currently. Make new friends, do savage mode etc.

SN: I have a wife and a FT job and still play 40 hours a week.. and have NOT beaten T5 yet! And guess what??? IT'S OK!

[A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider]

Why is everyone against variety? Why is everyone against having more than 1 option? Basing the end-game content on the success of coil alone is ludicrous, because it's not going to appeal to everyone's tastes, whether it be the party size or just the setting.

Because MacGuffin. It's their story, they'll partition it as they see fit.

[Mugiawara]

My only real advice to op is just like what any else would say:
try the new content we just got....or take a leave a few months.
i left 2-3 times with this game myself when i started to feel bored or not happy with content.
you could just go play WS for a bit, since it's new and you seem like you like it more than this game right now.
nothing wrong with taking a lil hiatus till you find something that catches your eye.

another poster posted and explanation why for you and said it's coming in the future. take it for what it is.

[SendohJin]

Even the size of the party is of little significance in my opinion. It could be anywhere from 4 to 24 person. As long as there is some form of VARIETY in end-game. Why is everyone against variety? Why is everyone against having more than 1 option? Basing the end-game content on the success of coil alone is ludicrous, because it's not going to appeal to everyone's tastes, whether it be the party size or just the setting. Just because a majority of the playerbase hasn't completed coil DOESN'T mean they don't want end-game content. Maybe they just don't want coil or its parameters.

i'm not against it, i'm just pointing out that it is unrealistic to present it as a 50/50 proposition. the dev team only has so many man hours to go around.

and there is a huge itemization issue if there are multiple avenues of top tier content that more than half the playerbase is not taking part in.

personally, i would love to get 4 man stuff that gives me top iLv gear.

[Baneus]

how many successful MMOs have a playerbase as diverse as this one? the console market brings in a much different group than most other MMOs that are not WoW.

And the answer would be - the majority of them. Those of us that have actually played other MMOs and dealt with the communities first hand (not via some terrible forum stereotype that people perpetuate because the want their game to be "teh bestest"), know that pretty much all long term MMOs have reasonably diverse groups of people playing them.

But I do agree with the OP, since we're talking about diversity and whatnot - this game needs more diversity in it's endgame. though it will get there. Coming from "other MMOs", I have noticed that this community is terribly impatient, despite the patch schedule being a lot faster than the majority of those "other MMOs". What's up with that?

[Kakure]

After reading through a lot of the thread, I don't see why so many people are against adding another form of end game content.

More eight-player content means fewer resources to develop stuff I can enjoy without listening to socially inept idiots over Mumble.

[ruinedmirage]

Say you go to bakery. They have lots of coffees, breads, and a couple cakes, but what lots of people want are a big variety of donuts to choose from. This particular bakery has only one experimental donut in its whole shop - a peanut butter flavored donut. Based on the success of this one donut, the shop will decide if it should make more flavors of donuts, assuming they might be profitable. What SE is doing is making round peanut butter donuts, rectangle peanut butter donuts, triangle peanut butter donuts, etc. They tried something different in turn 3, making a peanut butter FILLED donut.

But what if someone doesn't like like peanut or can't handle them (the more casual playerbase, players with less time, no static). The people that tried every shape of peanut butter donut just want a different flavor to try. You're not going to get a proper estimate of who likes your content by only advertising and expanding on ONE kind.