You have enough casual/fluff content now, how about that endgame progression SEnix?

[TestSubject09]

W.

I'm identifying a large portion of the market, as someone that plays quite a few different MMO's over time, I noticed this elephant in the room (and its not just me, this is how practically most other MMO gamers look at this game from the outside... a game wiht potential, but lacking in end-game challenge) and that is the reality.


Funny you should say that you are not attacking, you are not maybe, but I've had assumptions made about me, told to get off a high horse I was never on, you can deny it all you like, but its all the same passive agressive nonsense...

I came here to talk about where the game can improve, and I was met with people basically saying to me "We know nothing about the MMO market as a whole, we don;t want this content... your an elitest no lifer and should not have content made for your demographic" .... please tell me how you can ignore that?

[SendohJin]

right.... and how does this differ from any of the other succesful mmos out there that do this... and yet.... people don't leave...

how many successful MMOs has a playerbase as diverse as this one? the console market brings in a much different group than most other MMOs that are not WoW.

I said its equally as important and has recieved very little attention since release, this is a fact.

this is probably your biggest problem. you don't understand equality. just because there are two sides doesn't make them equal. this is not odd vs even. this is prime numbers vs not prime numbers. the quantity of players on the two sides are not equal. also not equal is the time and resources to create content for both sides.

for a basic example. let's say for every 1000 players, 100 has cleared Second Coil, that means 900 haven't. obviously within the 900 there is a huge spectrum, some have not even cleared Turn 5, while some have completed Turn 8.

creating a 4/8 man dungeon for those 100 people will takes more time than creating a 4 man dungeon for the other 900. this is a fact.

[TestSubject09]

ALL of the end-game is already 8-man content. Why can't we get some 4-man end-game content? Why does it have to always be bigger groups?

Not sure what is worse... your comment that deep down you must have the logic to think "maybe there is only a limit on mechanics you can do with 4 people" ... its not just about iLevel.

or the person that liked your post as if it was a good point.

Most of the game is already 4 man. you can't make it much harder without just amping damage numbers.

[TestSubject09]

That. Occupy Eorzea or riot (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Also, I like this game so I don't want this "endgame" you speak of.

How would having this content effect you? you can... just not do it.

[Amused]

Whoa, you can't put variety and reward together to make fun? these arguments are weak and do nobody justice... gear wasn't even the focus of the topic... that guy just decided to come in and claim something that I hadn't... all this white knighting nonsense.

Why do you need to be rewarded for it? Doing the content itself IS the reward. The experience and the fun you have doing it IS THE REWARD. People with this mindset make me wish that there was no such thing as gear in MMOs and that everything you could equip is purely cosmetic. What would you do without your precious loot?

[kidvideo]

How would having this content effect you? you can... just not do it.

Endgame implies The End. Eorzea forever!

[Welsper59]

... PVP is a separate entity, when typically referring to Eng-Game Progression in this sense, its about PvE. Competitive-PvE ... Turns 6-9 for example. but by any game's standard... just turns 6-9 is incredibly shallow especially when it has to last 6 months.

Note, I have nothing against all the content added thus far. but lets be reasonable now.... how many more steam rolled 4 mans can they add each patch instead of content to actually challenge us? even if its parrellel to coil not an extention or upgrade.

At this point everything is in place to suit the players looking for a more casual experience. now they need to reign in those that are looking for a comeptitive PvE experience... I don't how what I say is unreasonable or warrants half the stupid white-knighting responses I have recieved... as if I've attacked their way of life.

... what if the goal was for a more casual experience? Who are you to pick up the game and demand they change the way they want the game to go on? I'm willing to bet your response is "I'm a paying customer". So if I pick up a CoD game, and demand they introduce something against their design (like turn based combat... in an FPS...), it would make me right for it? I would be a paying customer afterall. Just because you paid for something, doesn't mean you're using it or looking at it in the intended way.

Call my outlook white-knighting if you want, as that's typically a term used by people who have a mind that works along the lines of a child (in other words, you resort to insulting, particularly with internet slang, be it directly or indirectly). It most definitely does not help your argument, and to those who do not see it the way you do, invalidates it by a default. This includes the devs/Yoshi-P who have their own goals for the game. Why should they listen to the person that's essentially insulting the people who enjoy what content they put out?

[TestSubject09]

playerbase as diverse as this o.


hose 100 people will takes morn for the other 900. this is a fact.

You also have a problem with your arguement mind.... some of the 10 mans on WoW were harder than the 25 mans. Coil clearance has nothing to do with wanting a progressive 24 man raid... its simply wanting a challenging 24 man enviroment that isn't steam rollable in a PuG. Its not a lofty demand... and is ... and has been quite a standard.

A 24 man doesn't have to be "harder than coil at the first boss" .... a multi winged epic dungeon could easily have more introductory encounters. coil can stay as is... for those that want a challenge on a smaller scale.

As far as audience diversity... I fail to see why console gamers would want to be babied? the only difference here should be the way the game controls/its pace ... which is fine and a seperate issue.

I would argue a game like WoW has a much diverse audience...

[Amused]

Not sure what is worse... your comment that deep down you must have the logic to think "maybe there is only a limit on mechanics you can do with 4 people" ... its not just about iLevel.

or the person that liked your post as if it was a good point.

Most of the game is already 4 man. you can't make it much harder without just amping damage numbers.

You are totally clueless. Look at games like Monster Hunter. There are extremely difficult encounters in that game and guess what? You only play with four people. Yes, that's right, four people. In fact, things are MOST challenging with LESS people. Why? There is less room for error. If one person fails or makes a mistake, it can cause the entire group to fail. When you increase the number of participants, losing a single player can be negligible.

You are correct in that most of the dungeons in the game are 4-man. However, NONE of these dungeons are proper "end-game" content. None of them challenging on the level of extreme modes or binding coil. All of the relevant end-game content is for a group of 8 or more.

I think the worst part about your post is how arrogant you come off as. It's as if you legitimately believe that you and you alone are correct. You seem to believe that anybody who disagrees with you is wrong and that anything they say that puts a hole in your argument is "not a good point"

[A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider]

My first post WAS more of an attack, admittedly. However, as I saw more posts after that, I began to see how you're wanting a true theological discussion about end-game content in general, so I do apologize for jumping to conclusions so early.

Anyway, I'm not saying you shouldn't have content made for your demographic. Just that you're bashing the "fluff" content that was provided. Some people just aren't skilled enough to do the higher-end content. Yes, it would be nice to have more difficult content for a demographic of this game, but as someone posted before — SE knows what keeps the lights on. In a business, you have to do that. Sometimes that means not giving a percentage of customers what they want if they feel losing that percentage won't hurt overall and future sales figures.

And now I lost my train of thought. Hoping this has nothing to do with being in Central Thanalan. ._.;