Gap between MNK and DRG dps widening

[Lev_Decimo]

how am I exaggerating DRG's burst. That is literally what the skills say. On top of that i have played DRG in a raid situation as well as SMN and MNK. T8 is a poor excuse because it is perfect for MNK. SMN is not easy for everyone. Only people with good micro-managing skills can bring out the SMN true potential, but I digress. This thread isnt about SMN. Its about DRG vs. MNK. Its not even a fight. Using Perfect Balance as an excuse for burst in nonsense when a. its better used as a oh moogle turds move than to pump out a little bit of burst. b. a 3min CD. I will say this giving a minor buff to DRG is fine however in a perfect situation they should still be behind MNK by at least 20dps. even then you are loosing MNK because we lack any burst.


I have said it once and I will say ti again. giving them the same DPS will turn them into the same class. You are not a superhero you cant be good at everything its not how multiplayer works. The SCoB favors MNKs because of low downtimes wait till The TCoB and see what happens. Everything in an MMORPG is situational and changes overtime whether it be the actual classes getting buffed/nerfed or the content changing. in this case i believe it is the content as DRG didnt seem to complain about MNK dps when it was only the first coil.

[Ooshima]

TBH the comparison that most people look at MNK and DRG are based on dummy parses which are kinda completely irrelevant in group play/SCoB/EX Primals

MNK and DRG gives different functions and options to the team. MNK gives insane single target DPS at the cost of maintaining GL3 (which means low burst too). DRG is a pretty well rounded mDPS that has high burst (they can burst into 600+ DPS, the same range as BRD's burst) and the piercing debuff will benefit the raidDPS because almost all raids will have a BRD around. If you take the 10% DPS number from BRD and add it to your DRG's DPS, you will realize that MNK and DRG actually does the same, if not more, depending on fight.

Dummy and T8 parses are not suitable to use for comparison, as they does not take into account of most fights requiring movement and down times. T9 will clearly show that MNK can suffer pretty badly due to dropping GL3 and eventually, the whole raid's 4 DPS's numbers would be probably +- 20DPS from each other overall.

This is the reason why you don't see raid stacking double MNK at all (apart from LB charging) because people understand that the high disparity in numbers only belong to dummy/T8 parses. Raids generally bring a MNK+DRG+BRD+casterDPS or MNK/DRG+BRD+SMN+BLM due to the different roles, functions and benefits each job brings to the table in a practical fight.

[SDaemon]

I assumed that the bard would not be gloating about doing more dps than someone who was lesser geared by a significant amount. I also assumed that it would be obvious that, given previous comments, I was talking about comparing similar skill/gear. Thus, if they are skilled(or believe they are) and comparable gear, yet get oudps'd on the full encounter by her bard, then they need more training. Saying context was not an attempt at changing the subject, saying context was trying to get you to connect dots.

Aw why thank you, but it doesn't really work out well trying to connect dots that have no routes between them, especially ones based on your assumptions.

[Duelle]

Going by that logic; Why shouldn't all classes be just as good in AoEing like a blackmage?, or utility like bard? Everyone has its uses and situations where they shine the best. Bring a monk to a fight with bosses that jump away or make you move. You'll lose greased lightning and your dps will go down. While a dragoon will still do fine. You have to give up something to gain something. Also dragoon is more tanky right?

You can't apply the logic in a DRG vs MNK argument to other cases. You don't compare a BLM to a DRG, or a SMN to a MNK. It's not unreasonable to expect DRG, MNK and NIN (come 2.4) to be close to each other in terms of performance. The three are melee DPS, so I'd expect them to be within 5-10% of each other under ideal conditions. Having different mechanics for dealing damage is great, but parity in performance is very important with the way the MMO mindset ebbs and flows. You otherwise validate phrases like "getting sunwelled".

[Kuroyasha]

Aw why thank you, but it doesn't really work out well trying to connect dots that have no routes between them, especially ones based on your assumptions.

If one would not assume comparable skill/gear, then any argument about the comparison of dps to her bard, or comparison of dps in general, would be pointless to make, as well as her gloating over being able to outdps every drg/smn she comes across. There is no glory in boasting about dps versus someone who is less geared/doesnt have similar skill.The routes are there, whether you can see them or not is not of my concern.

[SDaemon]

If one would not assume comparable skill/gear, then any argument about the comparison of dps to her bard, or comparison of dps in general, would be pointless to make, as well as her gloating over being able to outdps every drg/smn she comes across. There is no glory in boasting about dps versus someone who is less geared/doesnt have similar skill.The routes are there, whether you can see them or not is not of my concern.

Whatever makes you feel better. Like I said before other factors (gear, situation, party comp) come into play other then "needing more training" which is what started this in the first place. If you want to go and say you were assuming comparable gear/skill from the beginning because you felt it was implied more power to you.

[Kuroyasha]

Whatever makes you feel better. Like I said before other factors (gear, situation, party comp) come into play other then "needing more training" which is what started this in the first place. If you want to go and say you were assuming comparable gear/skill from the beginning because you felt it was implied more power to you.

Like I said before: Context.

[Gormogon]

To bad there's no "job" specific rankings when it comes to damage that way we would all see these vocal players that are making too much noise are probably in the 4 digits instead of 2.

[Ryans]

Maybe they should just take 20 potency from Disembowel and add 20 potency to Full Thrust. In theory, it wouldn't be an overall damage increase, but instead do more burst damage since apparently that is all Dragoon is good for according to most people here. In practice, it could probably be a decent overall damage increase considering you could get two 350 potency full thrusts with one being a guaranteed crit all while under the effect of Blood for Blood.

[SokiYagami]

No, no, no and still no. I main DRG myself and I still don't think we really need a buff yet, at least not until the next tier of coil arrive. And when that time does come where DRG are falling behind, we will be getting the buff if we do need it. (Like we did before)

Before we carry on the discussion, are you able to tap into the full potential of DRGs yet? It's the small things that really make a difference. Like the T8 you guys keep bringing up, us DRGs are suppose to be able to hit 460 dps at ilvl 110 with HA spear. There's a post of it on reddit. Instead of spending time trying to get MNKs or SMNs nerf / buff DRGs, why not spent more time pushing yourself closer to the limits first? I'm pretty sure people would be more willingly to listen to you then too. I'm currently at ilvl 107 with HA spear and only able to hit up to 400~420 dps on T8 last week, but I don't think I need any changes besides my own mastery over DRG.

And if we do get a buff, I rather have it be something more on utility over flat potency buff like the one blm are getting recently. Sometime like shorten the cd window of Dragonfire Dive / Elusive Jump or making Piercing Talon more useful (a weak dot but with min. distance to activate like MNK's shoulder tackle?) like one of the thread another DRG started up some time back. Maybe taking a step further and shorten the cd of Power Surge to 40 secs so it stacks with jump too. Just something small, nothing over kill.

On the other hand, those who say DRG doesn't need a buff, which I do agree, drop that physical defense advantage as a point of argument. We shouldn't be taking any avoidable physical damage to begin with, and it's usually the raid-wide magical damage that is killing us, provided we didn't jump to our death or something

Call me easily content if you want to, but I think dds that can break the 400 dps barrier should give each other a pat on the back rather than banging each other heads to be first.