Gap between MNK and DRG dps widening

[skaterger]

That's not the biggest problem though, the bigger problem is SMN... I have no problem with BLM getting buffed, cause they don't have very good mobility. SMN on the other hand, are very mobile, and they still put out the same DPS as DRG...

SMN win against DRG almost all of the time, if they know what they are doing, especially on fights with much movement, where they also beat MNK's... They have better mobility, utility and have superior cleave damage.

What I think many DRG's, including myself, are kinda upset about, is that DRG doesn't really excel at anything. BRD have the best utility in the game, BLM has the best AOE (with infinite mana), SMN has everything... MNK has highest single target dps, DRG has middle of the pack dps, almost no utility, lowest magic defense in game etc... Burst damage isn't really a great argument for it either, cause they don't really have that much higher than anyone else.

Have you played summoner, or even dragoon at end game? Just curious, cause you have a full set of soldiery gear. Irregardless, some of the things you mention are blanket statements that are outright false. Summoners do not have "crazy easy rotations" and they certainly do not "excel at everything". What they are good at is when there are 3-4 adds so they can use bane , and also when the boss leaves the area but their dots continue ticking. Levi and T9 are good examples of this. That being said, all other dps classes except for blm also has 2 dots but how often do I see them refresh it before the boss flies away? Hardly. What you are saying is just being disrespectful towards smns who min max and play their class well. Just like every other class, there are many small things you need to do as a summoner to deal good dps. Microing your pet and its abilities, dot clipping and utilizing auto attacks are just a few things that they need to do to keep up their dps. Not to mention, should your pet somehow die, you lose a huge chunk of your dps whereas other classes do not have to worry about that. However the biggest reason I would say smn is by no means what yoiu claim to be crazy easy to play is that their rotation is not fixed, at least certainly not easier than dragoon. What this means is that past a fixed opening rotation, smns have to keep track of dots and their pet while also avoiding mechanics. Drgs have a fixed rotation, and although incredibly long, its still fixed and over time, it becomes ingrained and you can use muscle memory to execute it. I have played mnk and drg in coil 2, so I know what I am talking about.

Also you are totally off on the blm front. Top tier blms have little issues with movement. Their problem was that even on turret fights, their dps was still inferior to smn mnks and drgs. So while the fire potency buffs will help blms with movement issues, it was never meant to solve their movement problems, else they would have made firestarter stack or allow surecast to allow casting while moving. The whole point of the fire potency buffs was to bring blms closer to other classes in stationary fights.

It seems you are picking on smn when it is generally recognized that their class is one of the most balanced in game. Blm needed a buff and the 2.3 patch will bring the 2 casters very close in terms of damage output, at least at the top level, but blm will still shine at burst and aoe. It would be nice to see you come up with some evidence or numbers to back up your statements, since it seems you have not even stepped into scob.

[Warlyx]

I rarely see dragoons use jumps between cooldowns or even at 50 with heavy thrusts. I have seen a very small amount of dragoons playing their class properly so I think that should be taken into account for the dps.

yeah lets balance the dps of the DRG job around bad players ~~

[Lev_Decimo]

Craiger please just stop for the love of Bahamut. Your claims are baseless. SMN is balanced they do good dps and can fester for some burst. DRG you can spike your damage by 30% for 20s plus a little crit on top of that you can on demand crit your highest hitting skill. If thats not spike then what is.

There have been fights (Ifrit, Garuda, Titan, Turn 4, Turn 5, etc) where I wish I was a DRG because of the damage they can put out in a few seconds, but I am not I know what my class is good at and play to that advantage so why dont you see DRG's advantage in situations. MMORPG's are games of advantages. SMN's advantage is a fight with many breaks. A DRG's advantage is a fight with burn phases (turn 5 is perfect example) and MNK's advantage are long fights with little downtime. BLM's advantage are fights with little movement and aoe. Why is it so hard to see this. IF you want all classes do top dps under any circumstance go play single player because thats not how multiplayer games work.

[Craiger]

Have you played summoner, or even dragoon at end game? Just curious, cause you have a full set of soldiery gear. Irregardless, some of the things you mention are blanket statements that are outright false. Summoners do not have "crazy easy rotations" and they certainly do not "excel at everything". What they are good at is when there are 3-4 adds so they can use bane , and also when the boss leaves the area but their dots continue ticking. Levi and T9 are good examples of this. That being said, all other dps classes except for blm also has 2 dots but how often do I see them refresh it before the boss flies away? Hardly. What you are saying is just being disrespectful towards smns who min max and play their class well. Just like every other class, there are many small things you need to do as a summoner to deal good dps. Microing your pet and its abilities, dot clipping and utilizing auto attacks are just a few things that they need to do to keep up their dps. Not to mention, should your pet somehow die, you lose a huge chunk of your dps whereas other classes do not have to worry about that. However the biggest reason I would say smn is by no means what yoiu claim to be crazy easy to play is that their rotation is not fixed, at least certainly not easier than dragoon. What this means is that past a fixed opening rotation, smns have to keep track of dots and their pet while also avoiding mechanics. Drgs have a fixed rotation, and although incredibly long, its still fixed and over time, it becomes ingrained and you can use muscle memory to execute it. I have played mnk and drg in coil 2, so I know what I am talking about.

Also you are totally off on the blm front. Top tier blms have little issues with movement. Their problem was that even on turret fights, their dps was still inferior to smn mnks and drgs. So while the fire potency buffs will help blms with movement issues, it was never meant to solve their movement problems, else they would have made firestarter stack or allow surecast to allow casting while moving. The whole point of the fire potency buffs was to bring blms closer to other classes in stationary fights.

It seems you are picking on smn when it is generally recognized that their class is one of the most balanced in game. Blm needed a buff and the 2.3 patch will bring the 2 casters very close in terms of damage output, at least at the top level, but blm will still shine at burst and aoe. It would be nice to see you come up with some evidence or numbers to back up your statements, since it seems you have not even stepped into scob.

I know SMN and DRG well enough... I don't know what you're on about though, because I've played lots of SMN (not for some time now though), and I didn't have hard time with it. I'm not insulting SMN's or something, cause I loved playing it back then, and it does take some skills to get the most out of them, but it still stands that you can put out a big amount of dps even when you are moving around, without doing too much...

When I said SMN is good at everything, I didn't mean literately "everything"... They are on par with DRG on dps, have great cleave damage, great mobility and great utility.

In a fight like Turn 8, SMN might seem very balanced, but take any other fight where a DRG and MNK can't have 100% uptime, you will find that a good SMN will shine, and out-dps DRG's, and in some cases out-dps even MNK's. That's what I think makes SMN a little OP right now, nothing else. If they where affected the same way that DRG and MNK are in those kind of fights, then I wouldn't have any problem with them...

Craiger please just stop for the love of Bahamut. Your claims are baseless. SMN is balanced they do good dps and can fester for some burst. DRG you can spike your damage by 30% for 20s plus a little crit on top of that you can on demand crit your highest hitting skill. If thats not spike then what is.

There have been fights (Ifrit, Garuda, Titan, Turn 4, Turn 5, etc) where I wish I was a DRG because of the damage they can put out in a few seconds, but I am not I know what my class is good at and play to that advantage so why dont you see DRG's advantage in situations. MMORPG's are games of advantages. SMN's advantage is a fight with many breaks. A DRG's advantage is a fight with burn phases (turn 5 is perfect example) and MNK's advantage are long fights with little downtime. BLM's advantage are fights with little movement and aoe. Why is it so hard to see this. IF you want all classes do top dps under any circumstance go play single player because thats not how multiplayer games work.

Well, I just explained why I think SMN is a little OP right now...

As to the DRG burst, you are exaggerating pretty much... SMN might not have much burst, but that's their only weakness. That's one of the reasons you bring other jobs to the fights, cause SMN doesn't have that burst, but you usually don't need a DRG for the burst. If a MNK has GL3, he will deal such high damage that he won't be too far behind DRG's in burst... He can also use PB. It's not like DRG is the only job with damage increasing buffs which increases your burst. You make it sound like DRG's can dish out insane amounts of damage over a small period of time, while others can't pop any CD for burst....

DRG has burst, sure, but that doesn't make up for all the dps SMN gets in some fights....

[skaterger]

I know SMN and DRG well enough... I don't know what you're on about though, because I've played lots of SMN (not for some time now though), and I didn't have hard time with it. I'm not insulting SMN's or something, cause I loved playing it back then, and it does take some skills to get the most out of them, but it still stands that you can put out a big amount of dps even when you are moving around, without doing too much...

When I said SMN is good at everything, I didn't mean literately "everything"... They are on par with DRG on dps, have great cleave damage, great mobility and great utility.

In a fight like Turn 8, SMN might seem very balanced, but take any other fight where a DRG and MNK can't have 100% uptime, you will find that a good SMN will shine, and out-dps DRG's, and in some cases out-dps even MNK's. That's what I think makes SMN a little OP right now, nothing else. If they where affected the same way that DRG and MNK are in those kind of fights, then I wouldn't have any problem with them...

Again you are taking a very narrow and self centered view about this. As explained to you many times before, this is a team game and padding your dps is not the end all be all of the game. Also as explained to you previously, different classes shine at different roles so where you say that summoners are less affected by fights with low uptimes, then they are equally affected by fights which have high burst requirement. By your logic, we should only bring 4 black mages for t4 and 4 monks for t8. The game doesn't work that way because every class has its time to shine, drgs having good burst and providing a dps increase for bard.

Your claims of playing smn "back then" are also pretty weak. Do you know that Scob is a totally different beast than the first one? Scob favours melee a lot more than the former because melee generally have alot more uptime on the boss (and I'm not talking about t8 oinly). If smn is as easy to optimize as you claim, then why not you go try one and get back to me on that?

[Evtrai]

Eh, it sounds like there's some bad DRG's here complaining, while it is true that on STATIC fights like T8 MNK excells at DPS, easily being on the top, but when there's some mechanics involved like in T9 MNK DPS quickly plummets compared to the other classes, MNK being one of them, it's luck based on what mechanics are aimied at if you are able to keep your DPS or not. MNK cannot resume a combo where it left off, if you had to run away from mechanics, and has to start the whole rotation again to build up, you can use perfect balance once, not over and over, while DRG can quickly pick back up their DPS.

Considering that there aren't many purely static fights atm, I'd say it's balance, most people just seem very preocupied their electronic egos are hurt.

[LordMaitreya]

Looks like the Japanese community feels Dragoon needs to be adjusted also. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...81%97%E3%81%84

[Ryans]

I'm curious why people keep using T8 as justification for nerfing monk or buffing other DD. All the classes can perform well above the necessary dps threshold. This is the only encounter where monk can perform at it's peak without any exceptional player skill. In pretty much every other fight, most classes tend to perform fairly equally. In my opinion, dragoons, smns, blackmages and bards should be happy that monk performs so well on T8 because it alleviates some of the pressure they have to be perfect.

[Gormogon]

Looks like the Japanese community feels Dragoon needs to be adjusted also. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...81%97%E3%81%84

Give Dragoon the wyvern pet and you'll see a skyrocket of players getting good.

justification for nerfing monk or buffing other DD.

It's just how players end up being especially when they get to know where their job of preference stands. It's sad but that's how it is.

[Kuroyasha]

Saying context again isn't going to suddenly change the subject. Other factors (gear level, situations in battle, party composition) are involved then them just "needing more training".

I assumed that the bard would not be gloating about doing more dps than someone who was lesser geared by a significant amount. I also assumed that it would be obvious that, given previous comments, I was talking about comparing similar skill/gear. Thus, if they are skilled(or believe they are) and comparable gear, yet get oudps'd on the full encounter by her bard, then they need more training. Saying context was not an attempt at changing the subject, saying context was trying to get you to connect dots.