Gap between MNK and DRG dps widening

[KumaAkuma]

You do realize that SMN does way more dps on 2-3 targets than DRG ? I haven't done any tests, but I'm pretty sure BLM does more dps on 3 targets as well.... Either way, your argument just makes it look worse

EDIT: I just want to add that I'm happily playing DRG as my main, and I won't change to any other job... but that doesn't mean I don't care about the balancing. If everyone would just play what they like and don't care about balancing, then nobody would have wanted the BLM buff that's coming... Feeling like you matter is part of the fun in the game.

I did not say Drg was the best dps, I only said that Drg optimal situation is to have at least 2 targets, not 1.

[SokiYagami]

You meant two, three target like adds/dungeon mobs? Or two, three target like T1 / Levi EX?

[Lev_Decimo]

Everyone here who is complaining first of all should read my previous post in this thread. How close do you want your dps to be? within 5? then throw away your spike, get a long build up and quit because your asking for to classes to be the same.

Armor means nothing because either way you should not be getting hit and the hits that are necessary to get eaten are designed to kill no-one. Fundamentally DRG is supposed to have lower dps. They have spike. SMN is in the middle high sustain meh spike. MNK through the roof sustain low spike on a long cd. get it together DRG if you want to be a MNK so bad play one. If not get a handle on your class and play it for what it is. Your asking to be a MNK in DRG armor thats not how a game works

Your not a superhero in this game you cant be good at everything. You are one of thousands of adventurers you are meant to work off of your groups strengths and weaknesses. Again refer to my other post a page or two back to see those.

[Craiger]

I did not say Drg was the best dps, I only said that Drg optimal situation is to have at least 2 targets, not 1.

Well okay... But it doesn't change anything to the argument this thread is about. You simply pointed out that DRG isn't strongest at their most optimal situation Also, single target dps will always come first when SE is balancing the jobs, since most of the content (that matters at least) is against one boss. BLM has the highest AoE dps, but they still are buffing them to come closer or even with DRG and SMN in single target dps.

Everyone here who is complaining first of all should read my previous post in this thread. How close do you want your dps to be? within 5? then throw away your spike, get a long build up and quit because your asking for to classes to be the same.

Armor means nothing because either way you should not be getting hit and the hits that are necessary to get eaten are designed to kill no-one. Fundamentally DRG is supposed to have lower dps. They have spike. SMN is in the middle high sustain meh spike. MNK through the roof sustain low spike on a long cd. get it together DRG if you want to be a MNK so bad play one. If not get a handle on your class and play it for what it is. Your asking to be a MNK in DRG armor thats not how a game works

Your not a superhero in this game you cant be good at everything. You are one of thousands of adventurers you are meant to work off of your groups strengths and weaknesses. Again refer to my other post a page or two back to see those.

SMN have the same dps as DRG, which means they will beat DRG in every fight except for fights like Turn 8. In many fights they will even beat MNK. DRG's burst isn't that crazy high as some people here think, and most of the time MNK can put out that kind of burst if they time their cooldowns right.

DRG takes more magical damage (almost all damage you take is magical) and have worse utility (mantra sucks for DRG).

Overall, the balance between SMN, DRG and MNK isn't really there, because DRG doesn't excel at anything that SMN or MNK can't do better or almost the same. DRG has better AoE on large amounts of mobs, but who cares ? Everyone still just wants BLM's for dungeons, which is almost the only place it's useful...

I don't want the same DPS as MNK, and I don't want to throw away our burst damage... But since our burst damage isn't that relevant, why should the dps be 10% higher for MNK ? It isn't comparable...

[Souljacker]

This is exactly the real reason that SE does not want us to use a parser. This way we will see how broken the jobs are in relation to one another, and as an answer to this post above me, yes - DPS classes should be within the same realm as one another. Very close, not 100dps apart. This doesn't make them the "same", but it allows them to perform the same "role" as they are supposed to. We cannot have one DPS class so much further ahead than the others because what happens is the others aren't asked to come to the fight. We leave them behind because why would you ever bring an inferior class?

[Themis]

This is exactly the real reason that SE does not want us to use a parser. This way we will see how broken the jobs are in relation to one another, and as an answer to this post above me, yes - DPS classes should be within the same realm as one another. Very close, not 100dps apart. This doesn't make them the "same", but it allows them to perform the same "role" as they are supposed to. We cannot have one DPS class so much further ahead than the others because what happens is the others aren't asked to come to the fight. We leave them behind because why would you ever bring an inferior class?

So we should have 1 single DPS class? I mean, that would solve the problem if you want all DPS to be the same and not have an inferior or even superior class.

Each DPS has a role to play. It's a damage dealer (I really dislike that they are referred to as DPS - that's a rate) whose role is to simply deal damage in some way.

Monks deal damage constantly, and the longer they are able to deal that damage constantly, the more powerful it gets (to a point). Once they lose that momentum, their dps plummets as they build it back up again. Dragoon's don't have that problem. Their damage starts of in the middle, and it maintains itself in the middle, with occasional bursts/spikes as needed.

And that is perfectly fine.

If you want to deal the high sustained damage, then take up Monk. If you want to be able to provide that much needed spike damage (either to push a phase change or to take out adds etc), then you have Dragoon.

And it's only in specific circumstances which result in the large disparity becoming obvious, and that's when you are under ideal, or close to, conditions where a particular job excels.

Let's have our Monks dispatch adds swiftly, or maybe we should give them the same kind of AoE power as BLM because BLM is a damage dealer who excels as AoE damage, and it's not fair that Monk isn't able to do that. What's the difference in that suggestion to making Monk and Dragoon stand on equal ground?

[Craiger]

So we should have 1 single DPS class? I mean, that would solve the problem if you want all DPS to be the same and not have an inferior or even superior class.

Each DPS has a role to play. It's a damage dealer (I really dislike that they are referred to as DPS - that's a rate) whose role is to simply deal damage in some way.

Monks deal damage constantly, and the longer they are able to deal that damage constantly, the more powerful it gets (to a point). Once they lose that momentum, their dps plummets as they build it back up again. Dragoon's don't have that problem. Their damage starts of in the middle, and it maintains itself in the middle, with occasional bursts/spikes as needed.

And that is perfectly fine.

If you want to deal the high sustained damage, then take up Monk. If you want to be able to provide that much needed spike damage (either to push a phase change or to take out adds etc), then you have Dragoon.

And it's only in specific circumstances which result in the large disparity becoming obvious, and that's when you are under ideal, or close to, conditions where a particular job excels.

Let's have our Monks dispatch adds swiftly, or maybe we should give them the same kind of AoE power as BLM because BLM is a damage dealer who excels as AoE damage, and it's not fair that Monk isn't able to do that. What's the difference in that suggestion to making Monk and Dragoon stand on equal ground?

Nobody is talking about making DRG and MNK equal or something, or that every damage dealer should be the same for that matter... I just want a small buff to dps, just like BLM is getting in 2.3. It would move them closer to MNK, but not the same. DRG would have lower dps and higher burst, while MNK would have higher dps and less burst... Not like now, which is, DRG having MUCH lower dps compared to MNK, while not having a huge amount of added burst. When in GL3, MNK doesn't burst down things much slower than DRG, and if they keep PB for a certain part of a fight, they can do good burst too...

It all just comes down to balancing within reason... BLM got a buff cause they where falling behind in DPS, but they where closer to DRG/SMN, than DRG/SMN is to MNK... So it's not like a buff to DRG would be ruining the game or something -_-

[PenutButter]

A Drg's noticeable higher burst comes from the fact that Mnk has to charge up his lightning, once the Mnk is fully charged, the difference in burst is not that noticeable anymore. However, there are many instances where a Mnk cannot help but lose his lightning, even if he is a damn good Mnk. I have seen many instances where a good and equally geared Drg can overtake the Mnk until he charge up again. And yes, the dps should be that close, if it's not that close and you have similar gear, then you're simply being outplayed and the fault lies with you.

But I do agree, these Drgs want to do as much damage as a Mnk, which just shouldn't happen. If a Mnk can maintain his lightning and attain optimal uptime on the boss, he should have the highest sustained dps, that is his quirk. Disembowel adds more damage to Bards than people care to realize, especially since people only tend to pay attention to themselves.

[ShinigamiZero]

I rarely see dragoons use jumps between cooldowns or even at 50 with heavy thrusts. I have seen a very small amount of dragoons playing their class properly so I think that should be taken into account for the dps.

[Souljacker]

But I do agree, these Drgs want to do as much damage as a Mnk, which just shouldn't happen.

And why not? Who woke up one day and said "Monk should be the highest DPS, period"?

I will never understand this idea that certain jobs should get some privilege and be selected over other jobs when building a party. It was terrible in XI, and it's terrible here too. All jobs should bring comparable DPS and and abilities to the table or the design has failed. We should never, EVER, say "no one should ever have the sustained dps a monk does because, because REASONS".